[Cronos]

Which comes first, God's plan or God's creation of the participants in His plan? If God's plan comes first then certain things must necessarily happen, independent of chance.

Which came first -- the Chicken or the egg?

[Forest Keeper]

Me: "Which comes first, God's plan or God's creation of the participants in His plan? If God's plan comes first then certain things must necessarily happen, independent of chance."

Which came first -- the Chicken or the egg?

Whichever God created first. I would presume the chicken, since there would not have been an existing chicken to warm the egg until hatching. Of course I could be wrong. In any event, you didn't address the point I raised.

Post #969 Me: "Was God just lucky then, that Judas betrayed Christ?"

No, read post #925

I did. In #925 Kosta says :"He has foreseen and incorporated our choices into His plan." That means that God's plan is necessarily DEPENDENT on our free-will choices. God is incorporating something external to himself (our choices) into His plan. I give God much more credit concerning His sovereignty and power. I don't think God's divine plan works around us, I say that it works through us.