Which came first -- the Chicken or the egg?
Whichever God created first. I would presume the chicken, since there would not have been an existing chicken to warm the egg until hatching. Of course I could be wrong. In any event, you didn't address the point I raised.
Post #969 Me: "Was God just lucky then, that Judas betrayed Christ?"
No, read post #925
I did. In #925 Kosta says :"He has foreseen and incorporated our choices into His plan." That means that God's plan is necessarily DEPENDENT on our free-will choices. God is incorporating something external to himself (our choices) into His plan. I give God much more credit concerning His sovereignty and power. I don't think God's divine plan works around us, I say that it works through us.
FK I give God much more credit concerning His sovereignty and power. I don't think God's divine plan works around us, I say that it works through us
What's with you guys? Did I ever say that God doesn't work through us?
The plain and simple logic tells us that our free choice affects us and not God. We cannot affect God, change His plan, etc. God, however, loves us and accommodates us as He sees fit.
Take, fop example the case of king Hezekiah who was destined to die and was commanded by God to set his house in order "for thou shalt die, and not live." The king pleaded with God through prayer, and cried, saying:
"I beseech thee, O LORD, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight."
And the Lord responded:
"I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the LORD. And I will add unto thy days fifteen years..." (from 2 Kings 20:3-6)
Obviously God's plan is not set in stone, as God retains perfect freedom to adjust things as He sees fit. The final destination is known, but the route which God takes to steer Creation to the conclusion of His plan -- of which all options are known and available to Him -- is up to Him to decide. Thus, if He decides to spare one of us for His purpose, He shall do so.
The message of this chapter is that the king lived for another 15 years because the Lord heard his prayers and seen his tears and changed His mind, and not because the date of the king's death was an absolute certainty. God simply responded to the king's choice. God did not force the king to cry and pray. That was the king's decision and God foreknew that if he didn't pray and cry he would die, but He also foreknew that if He cried and prayed he would live.
Do you honestly think that God's plan would have failed if the king were too proud to beg for his life? I doubt it! God does things for us because He loves us, and not because He needs us to accomplish His plan.
The Protestants take this rigid outlook on Predestination as something that binds even God to stay on course no matter what, thus subordaining God (how ironic!) to His own will. God is infinitely free to do as He pleases, and He does.
And he obviously can incorporate our free will in His plan whiteout affecting the outcome of that Plan. Saying that our free will can somehow deter God from accomplishing His plan is giving humans way too much credit.
You are forgetting that our freedom of choice is also God's gift.