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To: Forest Keeper
The righteous (Christ) died for the sins of the unrighteous (you would say all, I would say the elect because they are the only ones brought to God)

This is not a subject of how you "feel." Where does it say in Scriptures that only the "elect" are saved?

Sure sounds like the Scripture says that one man's suffering may help even the elect obtain salvation. What? Works of faith can affect the salvation of mankind, even the elect? Is that not a little contrary to your theology?

+Paul (Rom 3:10) clearly says that there are none who are righteous (in the Christian sense, because Gospels do mention the righteous in the Judaic sense). Since no one is born righteous in the Christian sense, Christ died for all, for every one of us, that is unrighteous, past, present and future; so that all may be saved.

1,531 posted on 01/14/2006 9:07:35 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; ItsOurTimeNow; Dahlseide; zeeba neighba; ..
Where does it say in Scriptures that only the "elect" are saved?

Wow. That's a new one on me.

I guess some lucky devil could slip in the service entrance while God is busy welcoming the redeemed at the front gates.

He's been warned to beef up security, but you know how He is when He's got too much on His mind. All good intentions and no follow-through.

Rather than using the word "elect," perhaps the inspired writers of Scripture should have tagged them merely as "nominees."

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day." -- Romans 11:5-8


1,546 posted on 01/15/2006 12:31:22 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (an ambassador in bonds)
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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
[Reversing the order of your post] "Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory" [2 Tim 2:10]

You interpret this to mean that other than the elect are saved. Paul had assurance in his own salvation. He did not have assurance in the salvation of others in general because he did not know the names already written in the Book of Life. He is saying here that he is suffering on behalf of the elect, many of whom he does not know, that they might also in the future obtain the salvation that Paul already knows he has.

We say that we are not born with salvation (only the predestination of it), but that there is a point in the life of every elect that salvation occurs. For Paul that point was in the past, but he knew that for many elect who were then alive, that point had not been reached yet. Therefore, he wished to encourage these people before they obtained the salvation Paul already had.

This is not a subject of how you "feel." Where does it say in Scriptures that only the "elect" are saved?

In addition to Dr. Eckleburg's Romans verse in 1546, which is good by itself, I would simply add:

1 Peter 1:1-2 : "1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

It appears Peter may actually agree with us. :) You have to admit that this letter was written to a Christian (I would say saved) audience, and to admit to the other scripture linking obedience to salvation. According to the verse, the elect are chosen by God to obey, not others (i.e. if you say that God "chose" other than the elect to obey, you deny free choice). Other than the elect will not obey. Only those who obey are saved. Therefore, only the elect are chosen to be saved.

1,634 posted on 01/15/2006 11:24:17 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper
Christ died for all, for every one of us, that is unrighteous, past, present and future; so that all may be saved.

I sure you would agree kosta that all will not be saved.

1,648 posted on 01/16/2006 3:38:11 AM PST by HarleyD (Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on)
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