Posted on 01/01/2006 4:48:03 PM PST by HarleyD
Romam Bishop is in schism with the rest of the Church over some theological issues. Rome remains a particular Church withing the Church whose authority stems from Apostolic succession.
But God hates sin. The act of hating is not a love act, it is a hate act. While God is certainly pure love, this means he must necessarily be more than that. For example, God is also pure justice, pure mercy, and even pure wrath.
Concerning love creating evil, God creates all of us and we are all born into sin. We are all born evil and God created us. How is this twisted theology?
They say you are in schism.
Seems like someone in the Orthodox church is having a "pride" issue
Why is it that you Protestants refuse to acknowledge that God did not give us Scripture in hand, nor did He command us to write the Scripture, nor is everything that He taught written? The Scripture was not something truly canonized or static, or set in stone...or complete for that matter.
The creeds were formulated to clarify the Faith our Lord established against those who were confused about His divinity and His humanity. The councils met to discuss heresies, deviations from what the Lord taught his Apostles, not what every Joe and Sarah believed He taught.
There was no Christian Bible to tote around for a long time and the Church Fathers could not agree which of the 200 or so texts in existence were truly inspired. It took learned theologians almost 400 years to agree on the New Testament canon that you treat as something that was always there! Of those 200 plus, 29 were picked by men, I repeat by men.
Whether it was done with the aid of, or by, the Holy Spirit is a different story -- everyone claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit but somehow the sheer diversity in our misunderstandings and our interpretations tells me that this is not so.
And who was Luther but a man to pick his own? And who are the countless Bible-based denominations lead by preachers who claim to have the right interpretation and understanding of the faith but ordinary men who read and interpret as they see fit? They are all men (and women too nowadays).
Goodness! May God help you!
Good try. It's simple: our theology hasn't changed. It's not a matter of pride. But, yes we are in mutual schism relative to each other.
If it walks like a duck.....
Thanks for posting this.
Mark for further study.
LOL! I assure you He does.
You are confusing anthropomorphism of the Scripture with God who cannot be defined, described, painted, measured, limited, etc. but Who, because of our limited senses and abilties, is described in human terms.
PS I am waiting for someone to say "aha, gotcha! You paint icons, and bow to idols." He, he.
I don't mind that response at all. It's your belief and you're entitled to it. It does not offend me.
And I'm not trying to be "uncharitable." I give you Scripture and my understanding of it. You give me your understanding of it. That's how discussions work.
As far as salvation being "achieved by intellectual effort and understanding," I can see why a Roman Catholic would think that. You rely on church hierarchy to interpret Scripture and to declare Biblical truths.
As a Protestant, I rely on Scripture and the preaching of the word of God, and on the inerrant leading of the Holy Spirit to all righteousness.
We differ.
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." -- 2 Timothy 3:16-17"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
"Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." -- 1 Corinthians 1:20-22,24,30-31
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." -- 1 Corinthians 2:4-7.13"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." -- Colossians 2:6-8
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." -- Colossians 3:16
The other day I was struck by the beauty of a certain passage from Scripture to which my husband replied, "Yes, and that proves that it's true."
God is no dummy. He is accurate and certain and specific and precise in all that He does.
"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." -- Isaiah 55:11
As a Protestant, I rely on Scripture and the preaching of the word of God, and on the inerrant leading of the Holy Spirit to all righteousness
Are you suggesting that the Church hierarchy does not rely on the Scritpure, the preaching of the word of God and on the Holy Spirit?
Or perhaps you are suggesting that no one in the Apostolic Church knows the Scripture as well as you do?
Can you elaborate why your understanding of the scripture is superior to the understanding of the Church hierarchy, who, after all, follow two millenia of tradition in doing, as an all-consuming vocation, the same thing you are doing individually?
LOL. No, I pretty much said what I meant.
We are saved by God's grace alone. It's much simpler than some would make it out to be.
If we believe, we believe because He gave us grace to believe through faith. "Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ..."
But men love to rely on their ability to perceive correctly, regardless that Scripture tells us we have no such ability --
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." -- Romans 3:10-11."As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
A little light reading.
So, when I say that God hates sin, or that God sent His wrath onto Sodom, etc., those are anthropomorphic and in error. However, when you say that God loves us, that is completely different?
No, the Catholic Church teaches the word is to be avoided as it is not accurate. The two churches anathemized themselves over certain trinitarian formulations in the Creed, do not hold the same view of the Papacy, and still do not have full communion, but the anathemata were subsequently lifted. Moreover, the Orthodox view on the Papacy is infinitely closer to the Catholic view than to the reformed view. On the issues of free will, predestination, and salvation, the topic on hand, there is no disagreement between the two apostolic Churches at all. Kosta's explanations on this thread are exactly what a Catholic would give.
"Why is it that you Protestants refuse to acknowledge that God did not give us Scripture in hand, nor did He command us to write the Scripture, nor is everything that He taught written? The Scripture was not something truly canonized or static, or set in stone...or complete for that matter."
I am not acquainted with any Protestants in this forum or in my experience who believes that the scriptures were given all at once as a finished product, until the canon was agreed upon in the 4th century. What the scriptures say is that what we call the various books of the Bible were written by men as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write what God deemed necessary for His revelation and our complete salvation. After many councils called to differentiate spurious from accepted texts, the final council moved by the Holy Spirit, agreed on those writings accepted by the local gatherings of believers, as authentic.
What the scriptures do teach is that they are "dead" unless illumined by the Holy Spirit and one comes to the scriptures willing to be illumined and changed by them since they are the Word of God. The scriptures were not complete during the early church period but the followers did meet in the synagogues where the the Old Testament was accessible and they had in their midst those who had heard the teachings of the Apostles, deacons, and gifted followers and it was up to the assembled followers to search the available scriptures and their own experience, guided by the Holy Spirit to see if the teaching/doctrine was consistant with their understanding. That's how Priscilla and Aquilla could discern the deficiencies in Apollos' teaching and lead him into the fuller understanding of the truth or the Bereans proving Paul's interpretation of the Old Testament.
The whole idea of the priesthood of all believers or the perspicuity of the scriptures sounds like a recipe for spiritual anarchy and could lead to that except for the one teacher, the Holy Spirit, whose job it is to guide us into all Truth. And since there is only one Truth, no one comes to Christ except through the work of the Holy Spirit and no one comes to the Father except through Christ. He has entrusted His Word to ordinary men who, being moved by the Holy Spirit, preach/teach the Word and the individual believer, being moved by the Holy Spirit, who having studied the Word agrees with what has been taught and is a doer of the Word.
As for those who would make merchandise of the gospel or are too busy or too lazy to study the Word for themselves That is for God to sort out.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:26-29"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -- John 16:33
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