Posted on 01/01/2006 4:48:03 PM PST by HarleyD
Ping to self.
Both Luther and Erasmus wanted the practices of paid indulgences to stop. Luther was insistent. Erasmus more pragmatic. The practice of paid indulgences was admitted to be wrong by the Roman Catholics but far after the damaged was done. It should be noted that paid indulgences was a degree issued by the Pope himself from his chair. One has to wonder how an infallible Pope could issue a wrong degree from Ex Cathedra. I understand this applies to doctrine but I would content this was doctrine concerning matters of faith.
I would disagree that this is a blasphemous absurdity and from my Protestant perspective I would agree with the author.
I believe Luther would say that it is God who brings us to the point of repentance.
God works out His salvation in us. It's not done by ourselves. And before we hear the argument that we are allow to go on sinning...
I'll take schism over false doctrine any day of the week and twice on Sunday
And we do what? According to your teaching, then, God has not only brought us to the point of repentance, but into sin as well!
I have no doubt! Pride is one thing the Protestants never did surrender. Each and every one of you is the right interpreter of the faith. To you the only "false" doctrine is that which the Apostolic Church, which Christ gave us, taught from the beginning. Everyone else's "doctrine" is, of course, the "right" one.
That is interesting! Are you suggesting that paid indulgencs were treated as a dogma? That's the first time I read anything like this. Perhaps you could provide some links to sources of such a claim.
And rightfulyl so! However, that's hardly a justification to change not only the corrupt practices but the entire theology and praxis of the Church.
"All things whatever arise from, and depend on, the divine appointment; whereby it was foreordained who should receive the word of life, and who should disbelieve it; who should be delivered from their sins, and who should be hardened in them; and who should be justified and who should be condemned." - Martin Luther
Seems pretty clear where Luther stood on Predestination.
Amen. "Sweetness" is a perfect word for the gift of true awareness that every good thing comes from God to work for the benefit of those who love Him.
"Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation." -- Habakkuk 3:19
Thanks, and that solves the apparent problem concerning the seeming lack of God-enabled faith.
SO the EO church left Rome over which pride, I mean error?
But we are justified by the blood of Christ alone, according to God's will alone, ordained from before the foundation of the world for His glory alone. Rejoice, Kosta, that's the Good News which Christ came to proclaim.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself" -- Ephesians 1:3-9"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
"To you the only "false" doctrine is that which the Apostolic Church, which Christ gave us, taught from the beginning."
I don't find anywhere in the scriptures where Christ gave us an institution called "the Apostolic Church". What I do find is He called people out of their sin to follow Him and when He left to intercede for those who follow Him, the Father and Christ sent the Holy Spirit to teach, guide and empower each of His followers to be conformed into His image and do whatever He commanded. He gifted certain people to equip the called out ones to fulfill His commandments and He gave the qualifications of those who He had gifted but ultimately He left it up to the individual followers to search the scriptures as illumined by the Holy Spirit to see if what was being taught conformed to the scriptures, not creeds, traditions or the authority of any man. That is what Luther was basing his stand on, the perspicuity of the scriptures and the witness of the divine teacher, the Holy Spirit.
Well, there's pride in men's cleverness to somehow find enough righteousness in themselves to choose to believe, and then there's pride in Jesus Christ who is the "author and finisher of our faith."
Reformed Protestants choose the latter, by the grace of God alone.
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." -- 1 Corinthians 1:29-31."That no flesh should glory in his presence.
The EO never left the Church. You have your history mixed-up. We haven't changed our theology.
Amen. If I've learned anything from these years on this forum, it's that the Holy Spirit gets the short end of the stick a lot of the time.
Which unfortunately makes Christianity out to be more of a duality, than a Trinity.
But it is the perfect, unknowable, all-encompassing Trinity which separates true Christianity from every other belief in existence.
No wonder Trinitarian doctrine is being assailed on all sides. If that goes, we're left with Plato, Hegel and Martians.
So you see Rome as the Home Office?
You must speak some other laguage dear friend, for to choose means to make a selection among choices, options. A gift cannot be a choice.
God gives His blessings to all
"...for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Mat 5:45)
He doesn't choose; Love only gives. We choose what He offers. Love loves everyone, even the sinner. That deosn't mean the unrepenetant sinner will see the light of God if he or she rejects Him and chooses to stay and die in the darkness.
I think what you are trying to say is that we are saved by the Grace of God even if we sometimes (all too often) make a wrong choice, and repent for our ingratitude to Him.
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