Posted on 09/24/2005 11:30:10 AM PDT by tuesday afternoon
Washington DC, Sep. 23, 2005 (CNA) - In an interview with the Washington Times regarding the Vatican’s new document which will reportedly bar homosexual men from seminaries, Fr. Joseph Fessio, head of Ignatius Press and provost at Ave Maria University, said that a deep seeded sexual ethics problem lies at the root of the Church’s decision, and of the sex abuse scandal which has come to light in recent years.
"Both the present Holy Father and many Catholic scholars and commentators”, he told the Times, “have realized the sexual-abuse crisis was a sign of something much deeper and more widespread.”
Fr. Fessio pointed to a directive issued by Pope John XXIII in 1961 which said that ordination "should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers."
That directive, he said, has been largely ignored or watered down in subsequent decades.
"There emerged a justification,” he noted, “a whole philosophy saying same-sex attraction is one of God's gifts."
"That's what was so insidious. Now in our present culture -- which is obsessed with sex -- the church must make sure its own ministers are not contaminated by this secularized worldview," he said.
A 2004 fact finding report showed that some 81 percent of the priestly abuse cases involved boys or young men.
Opponents and several gay-rights activist organizations have expressed outrage at the document which is expected to be released in the near future by the Vatican’s Congregation for Catholic Education.
The document reportedly contains no change in Catholic teaching which has consistently held that homosexual men--even celibates--should not be ordained, and that homosexual tendencies point to a deeper disorder.
Likewise, the document is said to encourage already-ordained homosexual priests to make a renewed commitment to living a chaste life.
"my knuckles..." LOL. I go back far enough to relate to that! Doubt if it happens today; she might find herself looking down the barrel of a gun.
If push comes to shove, I'll take the ruler over the need for security guards in schools.
If you are referring to the Catholic Church removing the ban on married priests, for example, they may have to rethink the laws for required confessions of sins...Reconciliation.
Amen.
Didn't pick up your type-o til you pointed it out. No big deal. Overlook any I make if you can. Deal?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4276912.stm
The Pope is getting tough.........and the gay "angst" is enough to make you sick.
Some estimate that more than 25% of US Catholic priests are non-practicing homosexuals.
Notice the emphasis on "non-practicing" i.e. celibate. That's the new drumbeat: why can't "non-practicing" homosexuals be priests?
Because the inclination is objectively disordered and afflicted with evil tendencies.
I like the way BIRDS put it:
I wrote this earlier and I'll write it again here because what I find most telling is that homosexuals currently in the Priesthood opt to threaten to leave the Church and abandon their vows in light of this instruction from Pope Benedict but they don't consider abanding the sin itself of homosexuality, in effect, refuse to recognize God's very statement about it, and/or if recognizing, are rejecting God's terms.
Sister Mary Esmerelda, IHM (at least 4'10" and 100lbs.), would have eaten security guards (or any other miscreants for that matter) for breakfast. God rest her soul.
The only lifestyle available to any priest is that of "asexual", i.e. celibate. Homosexuals by nature cannot be celibate since their sexuality, by definition, is seriously disordered. Ergo, they MUST be removed from positions of authority within the Church.
Sorry kids, but that's the way it is.
For heterosexuals, on the other hand, celibacy is easy. Just ask most married men over the age of 50 ;-)
The Anglicans and the Orthodox - both of which allow married clergy - have major problems with homosexuality. The Anglicans deal with it by making it a sacrament (gay "marriage"), and the Orthodox deal with it by hiding it.
When the rector at St. Vlad's tried to stop it, the only effect was that the gays there "married" women (who came to the seminary to take catechist classes, but actually to find husbands) but continued with their unfortunate habits.
Celibacy has nothing to do with having an established gay colony. It's all about the ethic of the church in question. To my knowledge, the Orthodox in the US have managed to get the problem under control, while the Anglicans have let gays take over. We shall see what happens in the Catholic Church.
These days, married men need to be screened as closely as single men (especially in "metrosexual cultures") like Europe and the NE USA.
Given a culture overrun with sexuality there are many miscreants to be found.
Back in the days of old we were too busy worrying about where our next meal was going to come from rather than our next "relevant encounter". Yuck!!! NORMAL people aren't wired that way. I'll stick to providing for my family thank you.
I remember that tape. In fact I think I made a copy of it. The guy sas right on.
If you can find it, I'd like to have a copy. Please correspond by mail rather than posts and we can work out the details.
Not sure if he was Benedictine of Dominican but I'm pretty sure he was one or the other. Regardless, he was a prophet (albeit a prophet of doom).
Deal. But I've got to slow down on hitting that Post button.
Still laughing!!! And "God rest her soul?" Well, yeh...but somebody had to make her pay for her crimes! What was it with the IHM sisters? Bet they were boot camp sergeants prior to taking the vows. If they had been given the assignment to "straighten out" the guilty priests and brothers, I think they would have done a very effective job.
No intention of getting into nun-bashing here. Thanks to them I received an excellent education.
Thank you, sisters!
So tell us b-a-c...How would you feel if your priest is a convert and he's married?
Would you feel as though you were being cheated because your priest is not celibate? Surely this married convert cannot be as dedicated as a single priest?
The liberal-leaning Philadelphia newspaper splashed the conclusions of the grand jury investigation in large print on the front of their paper...two days in a row that I saw it. Though we read about the Boston scandal and those exposed in other cities, it shocks anew when it hits "home".
As much as I detest the media taking a possible pleasure in reporting this disgraceful news about the Catholic Church, I believe it is true. I have a problem with the Cardinal calling it "unfair", and referring to the crime or cover-up as a "mistake". The attorney for the church used the word "anti-Catholic".
Gee, I wish I could in good conscience pass off all my sins as "mistakes". And none of them come close to the evil deeds of these perpetrators and those who aided and abetted them. No weasel words welcome here. No excuses.
I remember the good ol' days when Holy Orders conferred extraordinary, sacramental graces upon the candidate. I guess these graces are no longer all that extraordinary (or even sacramental) in that they can no longer overcome "evil tendenicies" and allow an otherwise qualified candidate to live a life of chastity.
Whoda' thunk that SSA would someday trump Holy Orders?
Are you attempting moral relative argument?
One must be in a state of grace and faithful to authentically be ordained -the homosexual disorder predisoses one to not be in a state of grace and not be faithful -it predeisposes one to intrinsically evil activities -it is a burden for an individual not a burden for God... As the Church teaches, those with the homosexual disorder merit just discrimination...
Catholic documents and teaching on subject of homosexuality:
- The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality - Guidelines for Education within the Family
104. A particular problem that can appear during the process of sexual maturation is homosexuality, which is also spreading more and more in urbanized societies. This phenomenon must be presented with balanced judgement, in the light of the documents of the Church. Young people need to be helped to distinguish between the concepts of what is normal and abnormal, between subjective guilt and objective disorder, avoiding what would arouse hostility. On the other hand, the structural and complementary orientation of sexuality must be well clarified in relation to marriage, procreation and Christian chastity. "Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained". A distinction must be made between a tendency that can be innate and acts of homosexuality that "are intrinsically disordered" and contrary to Natural Law.Especially when the practice of homosexual acts has not become a habit, many cases can benefit from appropriate therapy. In any case, persons in this situation must be accepted with respect, dignity and delicacy, and all forms of unjust discrimination must be avoided. If parents notice the appearance of this tendency or of related behaviour in their children, during childhood or adolescence, they should seek help from expert qualified persons in order to obtain all possible assistance.
For most homosexual persons, this condition constitutes a trial. "They must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition". "Homosexual persons are called to chastity".
- Persona Humana - Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics
VIII At the present time there are those who, basing themselves on observations in the psychological order, have begun to judge indulgently, and even to excuse completely, homosexual relations between certain people. This they do in opposition to the constant teaching of the Magisterium and to the moral sense of the Christian people.A distinction is drawn, and it seems with some reason, between homosexuals whose tendency comes from a false education, from a lack of normal sexual development, from habit, from bad example, or from other similar causes, and is transitory or at least not incurable; and homosexuals who are definitively such because of some kind of innate instinct or a pathological constitution judged to be incurable.
In regard to this second category of subjects, some people conclude that their tendency is so natural that it justifies in their case homosexual relations within a sincere communion of life and love analogous to marriage, in so far as such homosexuals feel incapable of enduring a solitary life.
In the pastoral field, these homosexuals must certainly be treated with understanding and sustained in the hope of overcoming their personal difficulties and their inability to fit into society. Their culpability will be judged with prudence. But no pastoral method can be employed which would give moral justification to these acts on the grounds that they would be consonant with the condition of such people. For according to the objective moral order, homosexual relations are acts which lack an essential and indispensable finality. In Sacred Scripture they are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God. This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of.
- Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons
10. It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase.
11. It has been argued that the homosexual orientation in certain cases is not the result of deliberate choice; and so the homosexual person would then have no choice but to behave in a homosexual fashion. Lacking freedom, such a person, even if engaged in homosexual activity, would not be culpable.
Here, the Church's wise moral tradition is necessary since it warns against generalizations in judging individual cases. In fact, circumstances may exist, or may have existed in the past, which would reduce or remove the culpability of the individual in a given instance; or other circumstances may increase it. What is at all costs to be avoided is the unfounded and demeaning assumption that the sexual behaviour of homosexual persons is always and totally compulsive and therefore inculpable. What is essential is that the fundamental liberty which characterizes the human person and gives him his dignity be recognized as belonging to the homosexual person as well. As in every conversion from evil, the abandonment of homosexual activity will require a profound collaboration of the individual with God's liberating grace.
- Some Considerations Concerning the Response to Legislative Proposals on Non-discrimination of Homosexual Persons
II. Applications10. "Sexual orientation" does not constitute a quality comparable to race, ethnic background, etc. in respect to non-discrimination. Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder (cf. "Letter," No. 3) and evokes moral concern.
11. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.
13. Including "homosexual orientation" among the considerations on the basis of which it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead to regarding homosexuality as a positive source of human rights, for example, in respect to so-called affirmative action or preferential treatment in hiring practices. This is all the more deleterious since there is no right to homosexuality (cf. No. 10) which therefore should not form the basis for judicial claims. The passage from the recognition of homosexuality as a factor on which basis it is illegal to discriminate can easily lead, if not automatically, to the legislative protection and promotion of homosexuality. A person's homosexuality would be invoked in opposition to alleged discrimination, and thus the exercise of rights would be defended precisely via the affirmation of the homosexual condition instead of in terms of a violation of basic human rights.
- Third World Meeting of Families: Conclusions of the Pastoral Theological Congress
Mention should also be made of recent attempts to legalize adoptions by homosexual persons, and this must be strongly rejected. It is obvious that this is not the situation for authentic up-bringing and personalizing growth. “The bond between two men or two women cannot constitute a real family, nor much less can the right be attributed to a union of this kind to adopt children without a family”. With regard to foster care and adoption, the great principle to be applied is always the child’s higher interests which much prevail over other considerations.
- Fourth World Meeting of Families: Conclusions of the Pastoral Theological Congress
We reaffirm the rights and dignity of all children. They should never be neglected and abandoned on the streets. They should be protected, especially when threatened by exploitation through prostitution, pornography, child-labor, drug trafficking, homosexual adoption and immoral "sex education". A new threat to children is posed by the misuse of the Internet, when this intrudes into family life and undermines the rights and duties of parents.Children are the "crown of marriage", the real wealth of humanity. The natural place for their education is the family. It is here, in the community of life and love, that they are formed as members of Christ's Church. It is here that, honoring and loving their parents, they can enrich the lives of all members of the wider family.
- Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognition To Unions Between Homosexual Persons
4. There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God's plan for marriage and family. Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. Homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved”.7. Homosexual unions are totally lacking in the biological and anthropological elements of marriage and family which would be the basis, on the level of reason, for granting them legal recognition. Such unions are not able to contribute in a proper way to the procreation and survival of the human race. The possibility of using recently discovered methods of artificial reproduction, beyond involving a grave lack of respect for human dignity, does nothing to alter this inadequacy.
Homosexual unions are also totally lacking in the conjugal dimension, which represents the human and ordered form of sexuality. Sexual relations are human when and insofar as they express and promote the mutual assistance of the sexes in marriage and are open to the transmission of new life.
As experience has shown, the absence of sexual complementarity in these unions creates obstacles in the normal development of children who would be placed in the care of such persons. They would be deprived of the experience of either fatherhood or motherhood. Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development. This is gravely immoral and in open contradiction to the principle, recognized also in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, that the best interests of the child, as the weaker and more vulnerable party, are to be the paramount consideration in every case.
- Religiosorum Institutio
30. Those To Be Excluded; Practical DirectivesAdvantage to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.
Unless Father Fessio was making a mildly risque' joke (which I wouldn't put past him :-), this should be "deep-seated," which would also be rather dirty, in the context.
The writer should have got his Unabridged Dictionary out and chosen another adjective.
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