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To: drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; AZhardliner; ...
An interesting view one that I happen to share. We are often told of how people "rise" to the occasion during catastrophes but I'm not quite so sure. I believe the author is correct when the man made controls are gone then man's nature is exposed.
2 posted on 09/09/2005 6:23:48 AM PDT by HarleyD (I live in my own little world because I enjoy the company.)
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To: HarleyD
Very good read Harley. Thanks for posting it.


***The reason for looting is obvious***


Augustine wrote that we are living in two cities, a city of God, and a city of men.

The Earthly Kingdom is not redemptive, but exists to control the behavior of it's inhabitants, in a way it exists protect others, to tame us so we don't rape, pillage and burn. I think it is certainly an extension of common grace.

The Spiritual Kingdom exists to redeem lost souls.

I think what we are seeing in NO is a breakdown of the earthly kingdom, common grace was clearly remove from NO.
3 posted on 09/09/2005 6:55:29 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Calvinism is the Gospel and nothing else." C.H Spurgeon)
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To: HarleyD
" author is correct when the man made controls are gone then man's nature is exposed. " .........

That is when the " TRUE " character of a person is tested.
4 posted on 09/09/2005 7:11:39 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: HarleyD; Gamecock; topcat54
He who controls the language controls the debate.

The word "grace" has been intentionally splintered into near-nothingness. If a word means many things, it means very little.

There is God's grace to the elect, ordained by God from before the foundation of the world according to His good pleasure alone, and then there's God's benevolence at various times to all, i.e. the sun shines on the just and the unjust.

"It is impossible for any human being or institution to be "neutral" as regards moral issues. The civil magistrate will either call good evil and evil good, or he will call good good and evil evil, and he will act in terms of these standards. Now, man hates God more than he hates anything else, and thus men hate other men because other men are images of God -- and people hate themselves because when they look in the mirror they see the image of God. Accordingly, all civil government is simply organized sadomasochism, until changed by the gospel.

If you think "common grace" restrains this sadism to any significant degree, you are really, really, really, really, really ignorant about the real world. It is really amazing how Christians living in the comforts of the USA dispense this "common grace" idiocy to the rest of the world. Go there and live under their governments, and then tell us all about the wonders of "common grace"! God does restrain men, but it does not amount to much.

Ah, the wonders of common grace!! Let's see. Millions of wives forced to immolate themselves on the funereal pyres of their husbands. Millions of babies put in baskets to be eaten alive by ants as an act of worship. Child prostitution as national industries. You gotta love it! Why would anyone want Biblical law when you can have common grace?" -- James B. Jordan


6 posted on 09/09/2005 9:16:45 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (Steven Wright: "So what's the speed of dark?")
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To: HarleyD

But I'll give a guy named "Sam Storms" two points for irony in discussing Katrina. 8~)


7 posted on 09/09/2005 9:20:09 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (Steven Wright: "So what's the speed of dark?")
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To: HarleyD

A good read,. thanks for the post.

IMHO, one aspect of grace which isn't as frequently noted, is that our perception of His grace is very much influenced by our state of fellowship with Him.

For the believer out of fellowship with God, He may chasten us based upon His love and grace for us. From our point of view, we endure a calamity or evil, while from a divine viewpoint His discipline and even His deafness to our complaints to discipline may be actually manifestations of His grace.

In the case of Katrina, I suspect His grace was evident in the storm's rapid movement through the area and subsequent good weather after it passed.

I also observe how after those had left the area, who were obedient to legitimate authority and able, a chaotic criminal environment ensued. This seems to be a commonly graceful forewarning to unbelievers of what lies ahead after the Rapture.

Even with bodies remaining in the streets, deviant homosexual lust remained in those who insisted upon making a parade for their preplanned 'Southern Decadence' celebration. This also provides believers with evidence that those who ignore His discipline, will sacrifice their thinking (their souls) to other perverse lusts, good for nothingness, merely hardening their hearts to Him further. The consequences of damnation for those who reject salvation are simply implicit, not cruel, but just.


36 posted on 09/10/2005 12:44:18 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: HarleyD

>>I believe the author is correct when the man made controls are gone then man's nature is exposed.<<

Amen - sin is always there, waiting for an opportunity to "explode" itself on the individual and completely consume him.

"Sin aims always at the utmost: every time it rises up to tempt or entice, might it have its own course, it would go to the utmost sin of that kind. Every unclean thought or glance would be adultery, if it could; every covetous desire would be oppression; every thought of unbelief would be atheism, might it grow to its head."

John Owen - "The Mortification of Sin" - Chapter 2


50 posted on 09/12/2005 5:04:38 AM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow (Ransomed from the Fall.)
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