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Classical Anglicanism and Me
TexAnglican ^ | 9/04/2005 | Randall Foster

Posted on 09/04/2005 3:25:56 PM PDT by sionnsar

I just received word that a friend of mine from the University of Chicago is going to be received into the Roman Catholic Church in Colorado in a few weeks. This young man was once a youth minister at an Episcopal parish in his home state, though while in Chicago he joined Moody Memorial Church (a keystone of the American evangelical movement). I haven’t really been in touch with him since I returned to Texas fifteen months ago, so I don’t know exactly what took him from Moody Church to Catholicism. I certainly wish him well, and I rejoice that he is joining a branch of the Church that teaches the apostolic Faith, values the great Tradition of the Church, and cherishes all the Sacraments. May God bless him on this new path.

This news has made me pensive. He is not the first friend of mine who has “swam the Tiber” during the last two years. One friend (whose wife is still an ECUSA priest, btw) was received in the RCC a year and a half ago. I think it was the philosophical heritage of Roman Catholic theology that attracted him more than anything else. A young U of C undergraduate friend, whose father was an Episcopal priest all her life, was received into the RCC last Easter with the rest of her family. A third dear friend of mine in Chicago--I have heard through the grapevine--is close to taking the plunge any time. (It is possible that he has already made up his mind to do so and is holding back from telling me.) All of these people were Episcopalians until the events of General Convention 2003. And they all no longer at home within ECUSA. After having spent seven year living in the diocese of Chicago, I certainly understand that feeling. It is very difficult to maintain “the faith once delivered to the saints” under present conditions in much of the Episcopal Church.

I am first and foremost a Catholic Christian, dedicated to the one Faith of Jesus Christ as revealed in the two Testaments of Holy Scripture, summarized in the three great historic creeds, defined by the first four Ecumenical Councils of the Church during the first five centuries of the Christian era. I want to live and die in the undivided Truth of the Church as it was taught before the sad division between East and West.

I personally stand within western Catholic tradition because it is the western expression of the undivided Truth (i.e., Augustine, Gregory, Anselm, Bernard, Thomas) that resonates most strongly within my heart (though I honor those who find the eastern expression of our common Faith more compelling). I am an Anglican rather than a Roman Catholic today primarily because I do not find the claims to infallibility that the First Vatican Council made on behalf of the Holy Father in Rome to be consistent with the practice of the ancient Church (or of the undivided Church at any time in her history—to my knowledge the East has never accepted the claims to papal infallibility that arose in the West in late antiquity and the Middle Ages). This hesitance to accept papal infallibility in no way implies a lack of respect for the present Pope as a man of faith and a Christian leader. (Readers of this blog have no doubt noticed that I hold Pope Benedict in very high esteem). Rome clearly has a strong traditional claim on a “primacy of honor” within the worldwide Church, and the bishops of Rome deserve great respect for the fine work they have done in preserving the orthodox Faith down through the centuries. I long for the day when traditional Anglicans and Roman Catholics are once more reunited as a visible Christian family on Earth. But I cannot in good conscience affirm a power of infallibility in the successor of St. Peter as an individual. (I feel this power would reside only in a genuine ecumenical council of the Church, not an individual bishop.) I certainly understand why many people find comfort in papal infallibility in the face of so much doctrinal division today, but I am afraid that I cannot concur. (Though there is clearly some value in having a "court of final jurisdicition" for doctrinal disputes.) For me, classical Anglicanism is the expression of western Christianity that I find most consonant with the ancient heritage of the Church.

Another aspect of classical Anglicanism that I find appealing is its traditional ability to reconcile Catholic and evangelical viewpoints within a single orthodox body, both constituent parties of which are devoted to the veracity of Scripture, the validity of the Sacraments and the unity of the Body. This is the true meaning of the Anglican Via Media, and I believe that at its best it enriches our Catholic heritage with a zeal for the Gospel that honors our Savior highly. I am an Anglo-Catholic by conviction, but I honor my evangelical Anglican brothers and sisters sincerely for their dedication to the Truth.

These are the reasons I remain an Anglican. But let me be clear—I am a Catholic Christian standing in the tradition of classical Anglicanism. Increasingly it is becoming difficult to find this kind of Anglicanism in practice in North America and Great Britain. Many Episcopalians in the US are in fact liberal Protestants by conviction. They just happen to prefer a “fancy” style of worship, with esthetically appealing worship spaces, vestments and music. Many liberal Episcopalians could care less about the authority and integrity of Scripture or Tradition. Classical Anglicanism has been marginalized within ECUSA. A dozen dioceses, a few dozen embattled parishes in heterodox dioceses, a couple of seminaries—that is about all that remains today. I have to admit that if I were not in a solidly orthodox diocese with a faithful bishop and presbyterate, I might despair of a future for classical Anglicanism. Under the circumstances that prevail in much of ECUSA the Tiber might beckon to me as well. I therefore wish those who have already left Godspeed. But the Anglican Communion Network gives me hope that classical Anglicanism may not perish from our continent, and my diocese remains steadfast. May God have mercy on us and preserve our Anglican heritage, if it is worthy of being preserved. If it is not, may He take what is worthwhile from its wreckage and pass it along for the good of the Universal Church. As for me, I will stay the course and follow the lead of Bishop Iker, my reverend father in God.

I wish all my friends who have been received into the Roman Catholic Church well and assure them of my prayers. I also pray for the day when we all may be one as Christ and the Father are One.


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To: BelegStrongbow
And your charity could use a touch-up too, Siobhan.

Keep your spiritual advice to yourself, you non-Catholic non-deacon. Your Catholic pretense is a lie, and I denounce you for it.

21 posted on 09/06/2005 8:34:24 AM PDT by Siobhan (Have a disaster and survival plan for your family.)
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To: Siobhan

Shameful response, simply shameful. I did not ask your opinion in the present case, which happens to be concerned not with Roman Catholic issues per se, but Anglican ones. As I am Anglican I am quite qualified to speak to them.

As for my advice, you are free to ignore, constructively respond or simply reject it. I do not see how flinging ad hominems suffices in any of these three categories.

Be well.

Deacon Paul+


22 posted on 09/06/2005 9:36:55 AM PDT by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, protector of the Innocent, pray for us!)
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To: BelegStrongbow

You are not qualified to speak as to whether or not something is Catholic or not.


23 posted on 09/06/2005 10:54:28 AM PDT by Siobhan (Have a disaster and survival plan for your family.)
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To: Siobhan

Thanks for your Roman Catholic thoughts on this Anglo Catholic thread.

Please do not post to or about me again. This is the second time you have become abusive in exchange and while I am glad to help you if I can, I do not need to take unwarranted public abuse on subjects about which you cannot be informed.

Peace.


24 posted on 09/06/2005 2:45:52 PM PDT by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, protector of the Innocent, pray for us!)
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To: BelegStrongbow

As an Evangelical Anglican, I would be interested in how you reconcile our traditional Protestant theology as reflected in the Thirty Nine Articles and even our name until a few years ago with your Anglo - "Catholicism".


25 posted on 09/06/2005 6:26:39 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
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To: BelegStrongbow

Deacon Paul,

I just wanted to pint out something simple that you seem to have missed:

When a Catholic priest says Mass, according to a Church apporoved liturgy, you have the following: 1) a sacrament, 2) a real Mass, 3) Transubstantiation.

When you have an Anglican say service -- any service at all -- you have the following:

1) perhaps a nice service, but no sacrament, 2) a Protestant service, but no Mass, 3) just bread, always was bread, never became anything else.

I think that there is more beauty, and in many respects, more Catholicity to the words fo the 1928 BCP than to the AU Mass. We agree on that entirely. And other Anglicans, like St. Clement's in Philadelphia already use the Roman Missal (you mentioned one from 1959) as their basic rite. This, however, doesn't change reality. We have a sacrament, no matter how unattractive the modern liturgy is (which is why I don't usually attend it), while you have a pretty ceremony that is devoid of sacramental significance. Personally, we should have both a beautiful Mass and a sacrament. I have both. Most Catholics have at least a valid sacrament. You have a pretty ceremony. Who benefits most in the Christian economy? We who have the valid sacrament.

Want more than the pretty ceremony? Become a Catholic. Want more than just a sacrament even? Want a beautiful Mass as well? Great! Then become a traditionalist or join an Eastern Catholic Church. Why not have truth, a valid sacrament and a beautiful Mass all at once? I don't know why people settle for half-measures and empty gestures.


26 posted on 09/06/2005 7:16:55 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: BnBlFlag

I would assume you are referring to Abp Cranmer's Zwinglian theology. It was not typical then and is not now. Cranmer believed that Christians fed upon the Body and Blood of their Lord and Saviour spiritually at all times, and that this was entirely separate from the Eucharist (that is the Zwinglianism). He believed that Christians consume Our Lord as Abraham did, by faith and in the spirit. Now, the only reason the Church of England was held to what appeared liturgically to be a 'Protestant' theology is that changing the BCP required the approval of Parliament, which basically never said yes to anything.

The American BCP derives from the Book of the Church of Scotland and thus there are differences from the English Book. And, of course, one way to locate Anglo-Catholics is to ask what edition of the American Book is being used. If the answer comes back '1979', you are very unlikely to be communicating with an Anglo-Catholic. We use the 1928 American BCP, supplemented by the American Missal. Citations there, especially the Kalendar of Saints, suggest that this Book dates back at least into the 19th Century and was compiled for specifically Anglican use. Its Rite emphatically rejects Protestantism (that is, the tendency to confine the celebration to the minister and to isolate the congregants in private mediation rather than corporate worship).

One should also note that the 1549 BCP was written with the intent of placing the Church under the direct and total control of the King in perpetuity. It was Cranmer's belief, one for which he never got assent from any other churchman (clearly some would have agreed), that the King was and always would be the proper head of the Church. In today's terms that is...peculiar. We are changed philosophically from that time and must think in the terms of the day to appreciate that the urge to impose uniformity by aligning church and state was normal thought in his day. Consider was he was thinking here: he was viewing Christ as King on the eternal plane and placing his national King as Christ's chief subject on the temporal plane. We call that Caesaro-Papalism generally. Cranmer would have profited from documents we have found since his time.

This was also complicated by the fact that most English bishops were in fact state employees and vetted and hired as such. That many were also Godly men is one of those Providential things, as is the bare thread one can trace in the Holy Communion linking it back to the original Four-Action shape of the Liturgy of the ancients (Offertory, Prayer, Fraction, Communion). It must be noted that Cranmer's signal act was to suppress any mention of the Offertory, the better to separate the bread and wine from any possbility of being considered consecrated or even venerable. And it must also be noted that the episcopacy in England was a force to restrain the clergy and laity from expressing the Catholicism which had been the religious heartbeat of the nation from antiquity.

That all is to barely hint that lex orandi, lex credendi is a loose rule at best and likely something rulers would wish is truer more often than it is. And it all bears remembering that the English Church was established (in the sense that American Democrats can never seem to understand) and thus that it was treason to worship using any other Rite or liturgy. It was not until Bills were passed permitting wider freedom of religion in Britain that people who never felt comfortable in the CoE were able to express their dissent freely. The result could have been more Catholicism overall. The record is mixed, but there is a firm line of high Catholicism, most especially marked in the influence of the Oxford Movement (Pusey, Keble & Newman, etc.)

As to the Articles, they are purposely irenic and can be read in either a Protestant or Catholic sense. That is why they are not binding any more: they mean effectively nothing, as all laws do under grace.

As to PECUSA's use of the name 'Protestant', well, that reflects the power base in the church when that name was adopted. Being Protestant or being Catholic is a matter of the facts of faith. Labels were loose before and they are a positive trap now.

And as PECUSA has drifted into open heresy, as we in APCK said they would do 30 years ago now, it is of no consequence to us what they call themselves. Their faith is rapidly parting company with Mere Christianity, much less anything recognizably Anglican, and with no reference whatever to Catholicism. It may have some contacts with Unitarianism, but I don't see that as an improvement.

I would type myself as Reformed Evangelical Catholic, if pressed to be as precise as I can. The reasons?

Reformed: various medieval accretions have been removed from the Anglican Rite we use, as well as a number of extra-liturgical devotions and practices (such as indulgences and the Treasury of Grace-footnote: we do pray for intercession both of the living and the dead and we do believe that souls are purged in Purgatory. That we can remit their penalty or reduce their time for purgation is a medieval accretion to us. We pray rather that they may sustain their trial and be comforted by our love and remebrance. We are seeking to strengthen, we cannot intervene.). In addition, certain speculative theological points have been rejected (such as Transubstantiation). That would be a point of controversy with Roman Catholics, though not Orthodox, who never adopted that explication either. So, my religion is Reformed.

Evangelical: I require that any proposition put to me as a matter of required belief be either proven or compellingly implied by Scripture. This does not put all the weight of belief on Scripture but it does involve Scriptural backup in every discussion.

Catholic: The article that started this thread did a reasonable job of explaining Anglo-Catholicism, though too much weight was there put upon the pre-Chalcedonian Church (as vladimir noticed) and not enough on the Scholastics. So we do rely upon the theological analyses of Aquinas and Anselm (Abp of Canterbury, among other achievements: this is an office established far before 1534 and one which has been continuously occupied, save lacunae similar to those which have afflicted the Sees of Rome and Constantinople), among many other great medieval Doctors. To me, the essence of Catholicsm in practice is the assertion that the ekklesia gathers as the Mystical Body of Christ to make self-oblation to the Father and to invoke His grace to provide us with the Body and Blood of Christ, sanctified by the Holy Spirit (none of the Persons is therefore passive in the Eucharist) that we may be nourished by His grace and cleansed by His Blood. In short, we DO as He commanded us to do and as He said that this [bread] is His Body and this wine His Blood, we take Him at His word.

We also insist that the Eucharist, along with Baptism are real Sacraments and Mysteries, instituted by Christ and that we are directed to do them for the building up of His Body in time. These Sacraments cannot in fact be done by Man. They must be done by God through those He has set apart. We believe He ordained His disciples a ministerial organ of His Mystical Body and set them apart for this purpose and that they began a chain of consecrations which continues to this day. A fortiori, the Sacraments cannot validly be provided except by Apostolic clergy as defined no later than Ignatius of Antioch and preserved by the laying on of hands and the giving of the Holy Spirit that the ordinand be delegated to act in God's name for His people. This power to ordain is delegated only to bishops themselves validly consecrated by other bishops. Our bishops have this dignity through several Catholic churches and through Apostolic bishops of the American Episcopal Church (Bp Albert Chambers of blessed memory, for example). Now, while this has every spiritual overtone and aspect, it is real and conveys actual grace, changing the man forever. This is not magic, it is miracle.

Thus, Reformed Evangelical Catholic.

In Christ,
Deacon Paul+


27 posted on 09/06/2005 8:15:22 PM PDT by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, protector of the Innocent, pray for us!)
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To: BelegStrongbow

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. While I respect your beliefs, I do not share them. If I ever leave the Anglican faith, it will be to an Evangelican Protestant Denomination.
BTW, the Romans on this thread obviously think your Catholicism is a fraud based on their rude comments to you.
As a cradle Episcopalian, I thank God every day that I was raised in the Low Church conservative Evangelican tradition with good Southern Ministers, Morning Prayer every other Sunday and on the 5th if there was one, no Crucifixes (Only the plain Cross of the Risen Christ), no Invocation of Saints (we have one Mediator, Jesus Christ) no Transubtantion, only two Sacraments, etc.
If you think about it, the only thing our two wings have in common are our faith in Christ and the use of the BCP.
Its amazing the Church held together as long as it did even without the modern Apostates.


28 posted on 09/06/2005 10:15:36 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
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To: vladimir998

Really funny to see these lame defenses of the Catholic church, so very holy it kept sweeping its buggery under the rug until the thing festered so much it went to the courts to rule that the diocese owned parish churches so that it could be forced to sell them off.

Oh by the way, you might consider selling indulgences again. Nice source of income.


29 posted on 09/08/2005 9:05:49 AM PDT by Clint Williams
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To: BelegStrongbow; vladimir998; NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation
Not to be picky, but what made you assume that Clint was Anglican? ...or even Christian, for that matter, hmm?

vladimir998 is making wild guesses. But ignorant arrogant loudmouths often do.

I think vladimir998 might be doing us all a favor with his nakedly-hostile "Christian witness" from the perspective of the Roman Catholic church. I am not an Episcopalian but if I were, looking for a new home, from what he posts I would rank the Roman Catholic church right down there with the Fundies as "A Place Where I Definitely Do Not Want To Go."

vladimir998 says he is Roman Catholic (I seem to recall), but I don't see any RCs on FR restraining, or even chiding, him for the nasty, ugly, vitriolic and bigoted hatred he has been expressing. Silence is assent. Therefore I can conclude on the basis of available information, that Roman Catholics are not Christian. (I would prefer not to.) And if they let vladimir998 remain as their outspoken representative in this forum... I say fine. And I will commend them for their honesty.

But if there is one thing I have learned: a church that silently tolerates, and therefore assents to, statements such as those made by "vladimir998" -- is no church I want to have anything whatsoever to do with. It is, right from the available evidence, clearly not a Christian church.

30 posted on 09/09/2005 7:08:57 PM PDT by Clint Williams
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To: Clint Williams; vladimir998; AnAmericanMother

I have obedience to consider in my own decision but should my bishop agree to communion with Rome I would gladly go. There is no peace outside the Church and no salvation. That is not something to dismiss lightly. And I must say that you introduced your information with what has every appearance of trying to sandbag and discredit vladimir, regardless of whatever point he was making. It was a blind-side drive-by posted with no charity or love whatsoever. I am sorry that vladimir had to bear the brunt of your assault. I apologize to him for permitting you another shot.

Also, your use of foul language doesn't convince. It is true that there have been abusive priests and the Long Lent will continue so long as there are those willing to use it as a stick to beat the Church with. She will survive. Is she currently without spot? No. But then she is a hospital for the cure of souls. That she has had unworthy workers in her wards is also not news. Then again, the parable about slivers and beams in the eyes of the accuser applies to those outside as much as inside the Church. But the validity of the Church does not derive from the sanctity of her children. They may fail her and they may act as if to disgrace her, but she has Christ's warrant: even their own misdeeds will not prevail against the Catholic Church.

Peace,
Deacon Paul+

who is not a Roman Catholic but cannot stand for peurile and childish attacks on Holy Mother Church.

I am glad you clarified that my guess about your angle of approach not being from the Anglican direction was correct. Thanks.


31 posted on 09/09/2005 8:13:12 PM PDT by BelegStrongbow (St. Joseph, protector of the Innocent, pray for us!)
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To: sionnsar

The author is sincere in his views about the Catholic Church and the present state of the Anglican Communion. He has obviously spent much time reflecting upon the differences that exists and I commend him for his support of the Pope. If the only sticking point for the author is the issue of papal infallibility then I would challenge him to take the leap of Faith. There is so much good that the Catholic Church offers in its both its constant teaching and tradition. To get stuck on the issue of papal infallibility in comparable to hesitating to cross a bridge because you don’t like the particular architecture. I recently had the opportunity to see the Tiber River in Rome and I have to tell you that it’s not that deep! In fact, the first emperor of Rome widened the river to prevent flooding. I can report to you that today it is still very passable.

John
Confirmed on May 15, 2005


32 posted on 04/18/2006 2:00:12 PM PDT by johnnie7
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To: Clint Williams; Religion Moderator
vladimir998 says he is Roman Catholic (I seem to recall), but I don't see any RCs on FR restraining, or even chiding, him for the nasty, ugly, vitriolic and bigoted hatred he has been expressing. Silence is assent

And imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Or it would be, if vladimir998's posts were half as nasty as yours are.

33 posted on 04/18/2006 2:23:56 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: BelegStrongbow; Clint Williams
KNOCK IT OFF!!! Discuss the issues only, do not make it personal and be respectful.
34 posted on 04/18/2006 2:26:15 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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