Church cool to Graham crusade

New York's massive Roman Catholic population will sit out this weekend's Billy Graham crusade in Queens because its parishes are too busy, spokesmen for the two closest dioceses say.

The 413 parishes in the Archdiocese of New York, representing 2.5 million Catholics, are too involved with school graduations, confirmations and the Vatican's emphasis on the Eucharist during 2005, spokesman Joseph Zwilling said yesterday.

The Graham crusade "asked if it would be possible for our churches to invite their people to come," he said, but "given everything happening in our parishes, especially it being the Year of the Eucharist, we didn't feel it'd be possible to ask our parishes to take on any additional activities."

Across the East River in the Diocese of Brooklyn, which lists 1.8 million Catholics, church leaders have also declined involvement, although the crusade will take place there in Flushing Meadows' Corona Park. Spokesman Frank DeRosa cited Year of the Eucharist preparations as a key reason.

Thus, none of that diocese's 217 parishes is among the 1,300 sponsoring congregations for the crusade, which is expected to draw up to 70,000 people a night for what's been billed as the evangelist's last American crusade. Neither are Catholics officially among the 15,000 volunteers amassed for the event.

The Rev. A.R. Bernard, crusade chairman, professed some puzzlement over the archdiocese's reasoning, noting Catholic involvement in other crusades.

"Those who were touched by the Catholic charismatic renewal will be there," he predicted. "You cannot judge by the leadership's protests because the lay people will come anyway."

Catholics are still welcome to attend, but the lack of official involvement amazed Graham biographer Bill Martin, who characterized the archdiocese's reasoning as a "change in policy" from Mr. Graham's 1991 Central Park crusade. Back then, he said, 630 Catholic churches cooperated with the crusade and information on the meetings was handed out at St. Patrick's Cathedral.

That 1991 stance had been a huge shift from Mr. Graham's first New York crusade in 1957, he said, when Catholics boycotted the event and Catholic clergy were instructed on how to counter Mr. Graham's preaching.

"So maybe something's come down from above saying not to be involved in this," Mr. Martin added.

Mr. Zwilling said he didn't remember any such cooperation from churches back then, but Catholic clergy in 1991 did receive names of Catholics who answered Mr. Graham's altar calls at the Central Park event.

In a column to be released Saturday in the diocesan newspaper the Tablet, Brooklyn Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio outlined the significant divide over how Catholics and Protestants understand salvation.

The bishop said he welcomed Mr. Graham into the area and promised to follow up on any names given to them by crusade organizers.

To forestall objections of "sheep stealing," crusade policy is that all Catholics attending the event who sign a card signifying a desire for salvation are referred to the diocese.

Another Graham biographer, David Aikman, said Mr. Graham had a "good relationship" with many Catholic prelates, such as the late Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing, who in 1964 praised the evangelist's talent for converting non-Christians, adding, "I only wish we had half a dozen men of his caliber to go forth and do likewise."

In 1997, Mr. Graham told New Man magazine, an evangelical publication, that "through the years I have made many friends within the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, when we hold a crusade in a city now, nearly all the Roman Catholic churches support it.

"And when we went to Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota, for the crusade [last year], we saw St. Paul, which is largely Catholic, and Minneapolis, which is largely Lutheran, both supporting the crusade. That wouldn't have happened 25 years ago."

I am not a catholic and reject that it is the faith of my "fathers". My Dad was born a catholic and had the water sprinkled on him for his "christening" for his admittance to heaven

This is not the Catholic Theology, but that is besides the point. One is not baptized and then admitted to Heaven. Like I said learn the Faith that our ancestors, that I referred to as your fathers, knew. I didn't concern myself with your specific father.

If you want to debate Catholics, then you have to learn Catholicism, otherwise you are shooting in the dark. Your comment that we worship Mary and do not pray to God is a very common protestent misrepresentation. Somone gave you misinformation about Catholicism.

I refuse to exhange my relationship with Jesus Christ for a religion where you check the blocks of tradition to ensure you get to heaven, your either going there or not

This is also not the Catholic belief. All our salvation is based on the Mercy of Christ. Either he admits you to heaven or not. God does not work off punchlists.

Specifically, 20% of the number of years that we have known Christ, from 33AD to 397AD there was no Bible. How did one found a "Bible Believing Church" at that time? I imagine you have learned New testement Greek and Aramaic so you can read the Bible for yourself as well. Otherwise, you trust that your translators have correctly changed the words into English so you can comprehend them.

In Catholicism, we use the Bible, and the traditions that were used from 33AD and the first Pentecost, through today. We know what we believe because this is what the apostles taught, and passed unbroken to us today. If you go to the independent Greek Churches you will find a faith similar to the Latin Faith. There will be no Churches from the year 33AD that are similar to protestent Churches of Today.

I take it you did not read or understand John 6:53.

Do you have any Scripture to back up your claim?

23 Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it: 26 That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life: (Eph. 5)

54 Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. (John 6)

If any one consider and examine these things, there is no need for lengthened discussion and arguments. There is easy proof for faith in a short summary of the truth. The Lord speaks to Peter, saying, "I say unto thee, that thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." And again to the same He says, after His resurrection, "Feed my sheep." And although to all the apostles, after His resurrection, He gives an equal power, and says, "As the Father hath sent me, even so send I you: Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they shall be remitted unto him; and whose soever sins ye retain, they shall be retained;" yet, that He might set forth unity, He arranged by His authority the origin of that unity, as beginning from one. Assuredly the rest of the apostles were also the same as was Peter, endowed with a like partnership both of honour and power; but the beginning proceeds from unity. Which one Church, also, the Holy Spirit in the Song of Songs designated in the person of our Lord, and says, "My dove, my spotless one, is but one. She is the only one of her mother, elect of her that bare her." Does he who does not hold this unity of the Church think that he holds the faith? Does he who strives against and resists the Church trust that he is in the Church, when moreover the blessed Apostle Paul teaches the same thing, and sets forth the sacrament of unity, saying, "There is one body and one spirit, one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God?"
And this unity we ought firmly to hold and assert, especially those of us that are bishops who preside in the Church, that we may also prove the episcopate itself to be one and undivided. ...
Who, then, is so wicked and faithless, who is so insane with the madness of discord, that either he should believe that the unity of God can be divided, or should dare to rend it--the garment of the Lord--the Church of Christ? He Himself in His Gospel warns us, and teaches, saying, "And there shall be one flock and one shepherd." And does any one believe that in one place there can be either many shepherds or many flocks? The Apostle Paul, moreover, urging upon us this same unity, beseeches and exhorts, saving, "I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that ye be joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." And again, he says, "Forbearing one another in love, endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." Do you think that you can stand and live if you withdraw from the Church, building for yourself other homes and a different dwelling, when it is said to Rahab, in whom was prefigured the Church, "Thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all the house of thy father, thou shalt gather unto thee into thine house; and it shall come to pass, whosoever shall go abroad beyond the door of thine house, his blood shall be upon his own head?" Also, the sacrament of the passover contains nothing else in the law of the Exodus than that the lamb which is slain in the figure of Christ should be eaten in one house. God speaks, saying, "In one house shall ye eat it; ye shall not send its flesh abroad from the house." The flesh of Christ, and the holy of the Lord, cannot be sent abroad, nor is there any other home to believers but the one Church. This home, this household of unanimity, the Holy Spirit designates and points out in the Psalms, saying, "God, who maketh men to dwell with one mind in a house" in the house of God, in the Church of Christ, men dwell with one mind, and continue in concord and simplicity. (St. Cyprian of Carthage, On the Unity of the Catholic Church §§ 4-5, 8)

I wont get to heaven because of good works. I will not get to heaven by giving of alms to the poor.

The Bible disagrees. Some selections:

For if I preach the gospel, it is no glory to me: for a necessity lieth upon me. For woe is unto me if I preach not the gospel. For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation is committed to me. And I do all things for the gospel's sake, that I may be made partaker thereof. Know you not that they that run in the race, all run indeed, but one receiveth the prize. So run that you may obtain. And every one that striveth for the mastery refraineth himself from all things. And they indeed that they may receive a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible one. (1 Cor. 9:16-17, 23-25)
The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. ... And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first. (Matt. 20:1, 8)
Look to yourselves, that you lose not the things which you have wrought: but that you may receive a full reward. (2 John 1:8)
And he that reapeth receiveth wages and gathereth fruit unto life everlasting: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. (John 4:36)
But love ye your enemies: do good, and lend, hoping for nothing thereby: and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the sons of the Highest. For he is kind to the unthankful and to the evil. (Luke 6:35)
I have fought a good fight: I have finished my course: I have kept the faith. As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day: and not only to me, but to them also that love his coming (2 Tim. 4:7-8)
Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. (Matt. 25:34-36)
Whatsoever you do, do it from the heart, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that you shall receive of the Lord the reward of inheritance. Serve ye the Lord Christ. (Col. 3:23-24)
God: Who will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed who, according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: (Rom. 2:5-7)
What fruit therefore had you then in those things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of them is death. But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end life everlasting. For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 6:21-23)

St. Augustine summed up the biblical doctrine on this issue in the following words:

What then is the merit of a man before grace, by what merit does he seize grace, when nothing except grace causes in us our every good merit; and when God crowns our merits, he crowns nothing other than his own gifts? For just as from the beginning we obtained the mercy of faith, not because we were faithful, but that we might be; so in the end, in which will be everlasting life, he will crown us, as it is written, in mercy and compassion (Ps. 102:4). And thus not in vain is it sung to God: His mercy will go before me (Ps. 58:11) and His mercy will follow me (Ps. 22:6). Wherefore also eternal life itself, which will be had at last in the end without an end, is thus rendered to preceding merits; however since the same merits to which it is rendered, it is given; not because it is not given by merits, but because the very merits to which it is given were also themselves given. Where do we find eternal life to be named grace? We have the same magnificent defender of grace, the Apostle Paul: The wages, he says, of sin is death; the grace of God, however, eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom. 6:23).
See, I ask you, he has chosen his words carefully in such shortness: which having been considered diligently, light will shine somewhat on the obscurity of this question. For when he said: The wages of sin is death; who would not consider it most fitting to add this, if he had said: "The wages however of justice, eternal life"? And it is true; since as death is rendered as wages to the merit of sin, so to the merit of righteousness eternal life is rendered as wages. Or if he had not wanted to say: "Of justice", he could have said: "Of faith"; since The just will live by faith (Hab. 2:4). Wherefore 'reward' is used in very many places of the sacred Scriptures; yet nowhere are justice or faith called reward, since the reward is rendered to justice or faith. What reward is to the working man, wages is to the soldier.
But the blessed Apostle against pride, which always tries to creep into the great, that to himself he also says that because of this an angel of Satan had been given, by which he was buffeted, lest he should lift up his head in presumption (2 Cor 12:7), fighting therefore most vigilantly against this pest of pride: The wages, he says, of sin is death. Rightly wages, since it is owed, since it is retributed worthily, because it is rendered to merit. Then, lest justice elevate itself by good merit from man, as the evil merit of men is not doubted to be sin, he does not make the contrary statement: "The wages of justice, eternal life"; but: The grace, he says, of God, eternal life. ... Therefore, O man, if you have received eternal life, certainly it is the wages of justice, but it for you it is a grace, to whom justice itself is also a grace. For it would be rendered as if to a debt, to you, if your justice was from you, to which it is owed. Now of his fulness we have received not only grace, by which now we live justly in toils even to the end, but also grace for this grace (John 1:16), that we may live afterwards in rest without end. Faith believes nothing more saving than this, since the understanding finds nothing more true: and we ought to hear the prophet saying, Unless you believe, you will not understand (Isaiah 7:9, LXX). (Letter 194, To Sixtus of Rome, 5:19-21)

I will only get to Heaven by the Grace of my Lord Jesus Christ because of the blood sacrifice that he made for me on Calvary

Absolutely true, but your concept of grace is lacking. Please see the selection from St. Augustine for a corrective. Not in vain is eternal life spoken of in Holy Scripture as a reward rendered to good works. God makes us just, "Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to his mercy ... by the laver of regeneration and renovation of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5) so that we might be "his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10), and to these good works which God has ordained for us - they are grace because caused by grace -, we are rendered "grace for grace" (John 1:16) and thus to our good works God renders eternal life, as it is written.

"There is no Salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church"

I think an explanation is an order, as some, perhaps even some Catholics, take the above literally that one must be enrolled in the Catholic Church, or they will burn in hell. This is just not true, nor was it ever! Even the Church Fathers themselves declared that some of the Greek philosophers predating Christianity were "Christians" in their thought. I would like to quote Father Most, as he explains the Church's teachings very well.

"From the fact that the Church is God's means of giving grace, is it is clear that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. This truth has even been defined by the Church more than once, e.g., in the Council of Florence in 1442. However we must take care to understand this teaching the way the Church understands it. One like Leonard Feeney, who interprets the teaching on the necessity of the Church his own way is not acting like a Catholic theologian at all. The Holy Office, on August 8, 1949, declared that L. Feeney was guilty of this error. Because of his error, he rejected several teachings of the Magisterium, saying they clashed with this definition - but they clash only with his false interpretation, given in private judgment.

Pius IX (Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863) taught: "God... in His supreme goodness and clemency, by no means allows anyone to be punished with eternal punishments who does not have the guilt of voluntary fault." Vatican II (Lumen gentium # 16) taught the same: "They who without their own fault do not know of the Gospel of Christ and His Church, but yet seek God with sincere heart, and try, under the influence of grace, to carry out His will in practice, known to them through the dictate of conscience, can attain eternal salvation." Pius XII had said (Mystici Corporis Christi) that one can "be related to the Church by a certain desire and wish of which he is not aware", i.e., by the desire to do what God wills in general.

Precisely how does this work out? St. Paul insists (Romans 3:29) that God makes provision in some way for all. One of the earliest Fathers, St. Justin Martyr (Apology 1:46) said that some, like Socrates could even be Christians because they followed the divine Word. Now St. Justin also said that the Divine Word is in the hearts of all. Then we notice in St. Paul's Romans 2:14-16 that "The gentiles who do not have the law [revealed religion] do by nature the things of the law; they show the work of the law written on their hearts." And according to their response, they will or will not be saved.

Clearly, it is this Divine Word, or the Spirit of Christ, the Divine Word, that writes the law on their hearts, i.e., makes known to them what they should do. If they follow that, although they do not know that that is what they are following, yet objectively, they do follow the Logos, the divine Word. And so St. Justin was right in calling them Christians. We can add that St. Paul in Romans 8:9 makes clear that if one has and follows the Spirit of Christ, he "belongs to Christ." But, to belong to Christ is the same as being a member of Christ, and that is the same as being a member of the Church. Not indeed by formal adherence, but yet substantially, enough to satisfy the requirement of substantial membership. Indeed, Vatican II even wrote (LG # 49): "All who belong to Christ, having His Spirit, coalesce into one Church."

So, St. Paul was right: God does take care of them; St. Justin was right too: they can be Christians without knowing it. Otherwise, God would be sending millions upon millions to hell without giving them any chance at all, if they lived far from places where the Church was known, e.g., in the western hemisphere before 1492.

That fact that salvation is possible in this way does not mean that there should be no missions or attempts to bring back the Protestants. Richer and more secure means of salvation are to be had with formal explicit adherence to the Catholic Church. Therefore we need to make every effort. In regard to Ecumenism, it is good to keep in mind a rule from Vatican II, in its Decree on Ecumenism (# 11): "It is altogether necessary that the complete doctrine be clearly presented. Nothing is so foreign to true Ecumenism as that false peace-making in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss, and its true and certain sense is obscured."

I hope this clarifies the Church's teachings on the subject. One can be a "Catholic" and not even realize it. One can be considered a catholic in the sense that they follow the teachings of the Apostles, as given to them by Christ. One who follows the Law of Love, but know not who instituted it, can still be considered "catholic" in the sense that they are somehow a part of the Church. They are following the Law written on their hearts by God. Invincible ignorance will not be a reason for a soul to endure eternal punishment. Adamant refusal to enter Christ's Church, when one knows what it is, however, faces the distinct possibility of being refused by Christ entry into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Regards

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