Bishop restores Latin Mass (Phoenix)

East Valley Tribune ^ | 06.21.05 | Lawn Griffiths

[el_chupacabra]

Bishop restores Latin Mass
By Lawn Griffiths, Tribune
June 21, 2005
The Old Mass has regained critical mass in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix. The one-year experiment to determine whether enough Valley Catholics wanted Masses in Latin — the mother tongue of the church — has ended.
And Bishop Thomas Olmsted has declared Latin a winner. The response to a first year of "Tridentine liturgy" or Latin Masses at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church in east Phoenix has been so strong that Olmsted is making them permanent, and extending the special Masses to more parishes. After July 1, a Tridentine Mass will be offered Sundays at St. Augustine in Phoenix, which has a largely Hispanic congregation. For Catholics in the northern parts of the diocese, a Latin Mass will be on Sundays at St. Cecilia’s Catholic Church in Clarkdale. The Phoenix diocese had gone 35 years without traditional Latin Masses in wake of the sweeping reforms ushered in by Vatican Council II (1962-65). Changes implemented in 1969 included turning priests around to face their parishioners instead of the altar, new music instead of Gregorian chants and Masses in the congregation’s native tongue instead of Latin. But some traditionalists resented changes and appealed for a return to the Old Mass, with its cadences and rhythms. More than 1,300 Catholics packed into St. Thomas the Apostle, 2312 E. Campbell Ave., Phoenix, on June 6, 2004, for the return of the Latin Mass. They heard phrases like "Sanctus, sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth" instead of "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God of Hosts." Some came with their old Latin missals. People showed up that day out of both "piety and curiosity," said the Rev. Greg Kotnis of Sun City, who conducted the Mass. "Surprisingly, there were many young people, too. The old people were nostalgic for the old message," he said. "It is the Mass of the ages," said Michael Malone, whose wife Ann and seven children regularly attend the Mass at 1 p.m. Sundays at St. Thomas. "It’s been the succor of countless saints, and for us, my wife and my family, it expresses the best sense of the sacred, the mystery and the sacrifice of the Mass." The Phoenix man said more than 300 Catholics come from across the Valley, driving up to an hour each way, to take part in the Mass where the priest faces the altar, chants resound from a choir and altar boys hold prayer together at the foot of the altar before the formal Mass starts. It carries the tradition of receiving the Holy Eucharist on the tongue instead in the hand. Women commonly wear veils or mantillas. Rick Severs of Scottsdale, who went to that first Mass, never went back. "I did enjoy that, and it really brought back a lot of childhood memories, with the Latin songs and responses," he said. "But it is like anything else, you accept change slowly but once change comes, you don’t want to go back. You see how the change was really good." Olmsted has given the special community of Latin Masses at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church "mission" status, putting it in line to be a possible Latin parish someday. He has named the mission "Mater Misericordiae," which means "Mother of Mercy." Rev. Alonso Saenz was named pastor, and he also will continue serving St. Augustine Parish in west Phoenix. Saenz will be assisted by the Rev. Stephane Dupre, a French priest with the Fraternity of St. Peter, now working in the Diocese of Sacramento (Calif.). Dupre will arrive July 1 and live at St. Augustine. Priests with enough experience in officiating Latin Masses may do so, but the number is limited in the diocese. The Rev. R. Clements, pastor of St. Mary’s Catholic Parish in Chandler, holds occasional Tridentine Masses and recently conducted a funeral in the Old Rite. "He wore the black vestments and turned his back to the congregation," said parishioner Mary Douglas. "He is very traditional and very devout."
Contact Lawn Griffiths by email, or phone (480) 898-6522

Purchase this article for reprint. Click here for options. Copyright 2005 East Valley & Scottsdale Tribune Freedom Communications, Inc.

[maryz]

Check out this thread: Trust Us To Fix It (Diogenes on bishops' meeting).

[maryz]

Check my link at #81.

[Northern Yankee]

Good Morning.

I was going to ping you...

Too Late! ; )

[murphE]

Future church historians will have an interesting time trying to make sense out of the bizarre schizophrenia that overtook many bishops during the postconciliar period

Bizarre schizophrenia, or diabolic disorientation? The Evil One is intelligent. Attacking the Church from within is much more effective than from the outside. What better way to do the most damage the Church and the souls of the world than to attack the primary source of grace to the world, The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and to attack the men who offer that sacrifice, The Roman Catholic Priesthood?

[Wessex]

"Great minds think alike ; D, see post #8."

Your cryptic remard must have excited by suspicious mind! Isn't Pheonix where that interesting fellow Archbishop Paul Marcinkus is now hanging out? The plot thickens .....

[te lucis]

Isn't Pheonix where that interesting fellow Archbishop Paul Marcinkus is now hanging out?

Last I heard. Maybe he'll be appointed to oversee the Indult.

[Antoninus]

If you respect tradition, you will follow the apostles practice of preaching and saying mass in the local language.

Just have to rain on other people's parade, don't you? The Tridentine Mass has been the Mass of some of the greatest saints of the Catholic Church. Why not let people be happy about this development instead of being Mr. Negative Nathaniel?

Three cheers for Bishop Olmstead!

[Cicero]

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

Third declension (nomen et Patris), second declension (Filius), fourth & second declensions (Spiritus et Sanctus).

[ELS]

Interesting choice, Phoenix.
Wouldn't it have been something if it had been done on Ash Wednesday?

LOL!

[Phx_RC]

Mike Malone made some announcements before the low Mass at St Thomas the Apostle last Sunday, June 19:

Sunday Mass will continue at St Thomas on Sundays at 1pm.

Starting July 1 [or a few days later] St Augustines will have:
a 7am Latin Mass on Sunday mornings,
a 6:30am Daily morning Latin Mass M-F,
a 6:30pm Wednesday eve Latin Mass with confessions starting at 5pm.

St Cecilia's in Clarkdale will have a Sunday Latin Mass.

End of the Mike Malone announcement excerpts.

After July 1 we can reasonably expect an "occasional" Latin Mass at the Saints Simon and Jude Cathedral as it becomes closer to Catholic T/tradition.

[maryz]

My suspicious mind though wonders to what extent the presence of the SSPX has excited this diocesan yearning for the old Mass.

Didn't do anything for O'Brien. Olmsted's only been in Phoenix for about a year and a half. That doesn't mean the SSPX Mass didn't enter into it, but you could probably give him the benefit of the doubt. ;-)

[k omalley]

I am absolutely green with jealousy over your great fortune to have so many TLMs in your diocese.

Our previous bishop would not allow the TLM in our diocese of Wheeling-Charleston. The new bishop has been petitioned for the TLM but I am not lying awake at night anticipating his answer.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Yeah. Or maybe the people causing trouble in the church aren't from the church at all. Something to think about.

[Siobhan]

Pray for your new bishop and do not lose hope! Does he have priests in your Diocese capable of saying the TLM? Praying for that desire and ability among priests within the diocese is also an important thing.

[Wessex]

"Didn't do anything for O'Brien. Olmsted's only been in Phoenix for about a year and a half. That doesn't mean the SSPX Mass didn't enter into it, but you could probably give him the benefit of the doubt. ;-)"


Tough choice that. Either to revive the old Mass which most bishops would prefer to forget assuming they were old enough to remember it. Or to resist the temptation to spoil the efforts of 'alternative' traditional Mass practitioners operating within their dioceses. They do say competition is good for an industry!

[Pyro7480]

You're definitely being realistic. The new bishop was the rector at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, and under his "leadership," the FSSP and pilgrims who were with them were forbidden to say the TLM there.

[ArrogantBustard]

Tough choice that. Either to revive the old Mass which most bishops would prefer to forget assuming they were old enough to remember it. Or to resist the temptation to spoil the efforts of 'alternative' traditional Mass practitioners operating within their dioceses. They do say competition is good for an industry!

Of all the ignorant, arrogant, paranoid, self-righteous posts from so-called 'traditionalists' I've seen, this is number one. Are you incapable of even considering that Bishop Olmstead is promoting the Tridentine Mass for its own sake, because he thinks it's a good thing? That certainly seems to be the case; this article isn't about him introducing it to his diocese (that happened a year ago, shortly after he was appointed). This article is about him expanding it and promoting it throughout his diocese.

[sockmonkey]

Great article. Great Bishop. Phoenix is much blessed to have Olmstead.

That said-it seems like EVERY TIME I see an article that I would be interested in reading, I just have to skip most of the comments that follow. I am beginning to think FR has been invaded by paid agitators or something.

If someone were to post an article entitled Sunflowers are Yellow, I have no doubt the thread would be filled with diatribes against sunflowers and the color yellow. It wasn't always like this on FR where there seems to be such a hijackng of threads with innuendo, and provocative comments.

I know some would say it's only on the religion forum, but that's not true. I've seen it on every thread I've visited lately with the exception of the NBA Finals Thread.

And no, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. I just wondered if anyone else besides me finds the constant baiting, and nastiness by some posters tiresome and frustrating.

It's like the "Let's muck up" FR sleeper cells have been activated or something.

[Dumb_Ox]

I just wondered if anyone else besides me finds the constant baiting, and nastiness by some posters tiresome and frustrating.

I do, too. But I think I may be guilty of it myself. Sometimes you have to say something a bit outrageous to get noticed by anybody, now that the forum is so popular.

A weblog I frequently comment on has taken a nasty turn in the past few months. Maybe lazy teenagers and college kids visit here on summer break?

Back to Phoenix, my lapsed Catholic sister has just moved to Phoenix with her Fiance. She went the wacko neo-pagan route right after high school, in part because of her idiot friends and poor Catholic formation at church and elsewhere. I think her upcoming marriage has made her rethink her follies. That, and she's a stickler for the ceremony and pomp that one finds in a Catholic wedding. She's even said she'd like a church wedding.

I hope this isn't an entirely superficial attitude but something that can bear spiritual fruit, but can any Phoenix people suggest local groups or activities that might help give her a push in the right direction?

She's in the Central Phoenix area just west of I-17.

[Romulus]

(Donning my tinfoil mantilla and grinning from ear to ear..........)

...and cueing up "And Did Those Feet" 8-)