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How does an atheist know right from wrong?

Posted on 01/27/2005 9:08:45 AM PST by Zyke

If christians use God's laws as a moral compass, what do atheists use to guide their moral belief? How do they know what is right and wrong? Why do they follow any laws at all?

I am just seeking some knowledge to help me understand.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Religion & Culture
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To: InterceptPoint

Ethics are relative,......Morals ARE Absolute!


21 posted on 01/27/2005 9:33:58 AM PST by maestro
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To: escapefromboston

I am asking for examples. You arent providing any.


22 posted on 01/27/2005 9:34:29 AM PST by zahal724 (I own a lumber company? Want some wood?)
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To: general_re

Thanks for the tips on the reading. I will look up both Kant and Aristotle to study more.

It seems self governing is not innate though. Right and wrong is learned. Just like fear is learned. Since we are born without fear or knowing whats right and wrong. We have to weigh the balance, but against what.

If I was the first man on earth, how would I know. If another person walked up and I was hungry, I would kill the other to eat. I have a reason to kill. Is it wrong? If I just killed the other to eliminate competition is that wrong?


23 posted on 01/27/2005 9:35:03 AM PST by Zyke (Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you are saying. -Emerson)
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To: maestro

Not convincing....requires faith in the bible.


24 posted on 01/27/2005 9:35:25 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
Romans Chapter 10

:-)

25 posted on 01/27/2005 9:37:39 AM PST by maestro
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To: Zyke

See this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1327472/posts
for an example of Christian relativism.
In the Old Testament [and, the poster claims, endorsed by Jesus]:
START QUOTE "the death penalty [is] for rapists, (Deut. 22:25) sodomy, (Lev. 18:22, 20:13) fornication, (Lev. 21:9) (Deut. 22:21-24) perjury, (Zech. 5:4) kidnapping, (Ex.21:16, Deut. 24:7) witchcraft, (Ex. 22:18) for striking or cursing father or mother, (Ex. 21:15,17, Lev. 20:9) disobedience to parents, (Deut. 21:18-21) theft, (Zech. 5:3,4) blasphemy, (Lev. 24:11-14,16,23) sabbath desecration, (Ex. 35:2, Num. 15:32-36) propagating false doctrines, (Deut. 13:1-10) refusing to abide by the decision of court, (Deut. 17:12) even homosexuals. (Lev. 20:13)" END QUOTE

However, there are surely few Christians today who would advocate the death penalty for all those 'crimes' [working / shopping / playing on Sundays? pre-marital sex? cursing a parent?] Not to mention the impossibility of applying all 10 Commandments to contemporary American life - no 'coveting'? The consumer economy done with.

Christian morality is in no way fixed, but rather in flux around key values that are mostly in common with every other moral / ethical system of the day.


26 posted on 01/27/2005 9:38:49 AM PST by johnmilken
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To: Zyke
If christians use God's laws as a moral compass...

I would like to know why to choose to accept God's law. Is it because He is powerful and can reward and punish you, or is it because He is good?

This is a serious question. Are you rooting for a team because you think it will win, or have you chosen sides because of some innate quality of the team captain?

If your moral compass is not innate, how do you make the choice?

27 posted on 01/27/2005 9:39:46 AM PST by js1138
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To: Zyke

But what stops you is that humans are innately social animals, we like to hang out together. From what we've seen out in the wild all animals that form groups seem to develop a rudimentary concept of rules, they have leaders, they work together, they even occassionally banish or even kill members that or whatever reason aren't fitting in.


28 posted on 01/27/2005 9:42:48 AM PST by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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To: Zyke

Born without fear?
Perhaps, but we sure learn real fast.

It's easy to make a baby cry cry and cry.

I don't suggest it, it's just that I have often inadvertantly done alarming things around small children. Let dogs off leashes, spat fire, blasted fog horns. Without Jesus by my side I felt the urge, see, and there was no holding back...
:)


29 posted on 01/27/2005 9:44:15 AM PST by johnmilken
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To: maestro

Same as #24


30 posted on 01/27/2005 9:45:07 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: johnmilken

Looks relative to me...


31 posted on 01/27/2005 9:47:37 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: InterceptPoint

Its "Thou Shalt Not Murder"


32 posted on 01/27/2005 9:48:13 AM PST by zahal724 (I own a lumber company? Want some wood?)
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To: Zyke

"How do they know what is right and wrong?"

God has writen it on ALL our hearts, so ALL know, and are withOUT excuse. (Especially Romans 1:19)


Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest IN them; for God HATH shewed [it] unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are CLEARLY seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are withOUT excuse:

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


33 posted on 01/27/2005 9:51:06 AM PST by Esther Ruth ( No one can serve two masters! Choose this day!! God or Man?)
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To: Zyke

Dont be stupid. Other animals dont practice cannibalism. Its not natural for a species to kill its own. It happens, yes, but usually for showing authority, and even then animals dont kill their own kind. If you met another human and were hungry, both of you would work together to hunt and feed both of you. Dont be naive.


34 posted on 01/27/2005 9:51:10 AM PST by zahal724 (I own a lumber company? Want some wood?)
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To: js1138
"Is it because He is powerful and can reward and punish you, or is it because He is good?"

It is because He is our Creator and He is the source of our lives both now and after death. Not all Christians are concerned about the reward/punish aspect that you bring up. For some of us, salvation cannot be earned so the carrot and stick approach is irrelevant.

Some else here brought up the Golden Rule as an appropriate standard. I remember being totally shocked when a very smart friend of mine told me that she despised the Golden Rule because she did not necessarily trust the intentions of those who held it.

The more I thought about it, the better I saw her point. Just because YOU are okay with being nagged or demeaned or deprived of liberty in certain circumstances doesn't mean that I will be okay with it.

35 posted on 01/27/2005 9:53:40 AM PST by Gingersnap
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To: zahal724

Well some do, but it's usually animals that don't form groups (like bears) and usually the offspring of rivals. But for the vast majority of animals the vast majority of the time you are correct.


36 posted on 01/27/2005 9:54:00 AM PST by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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To: Zyke
Are their any great Atheist societies in history?
37 posted on 01/27/2005 9:54:52 AM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: zahal724

Plenty of animals practice cannibalism. Do a google if in doubt, but I have to tear myself away from this machine and kickstart other things.


38 posted on 01/27/2005 9:55:44 AM PST by johnmilken
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To: js1138

I personally have accepted God's law because that is what I was taught and learned. I believe God is good.

I root for a team that I think will win in human terms. Spiritually I root for who I know will win.


The only other way to make the choice IMO is to learn what's right and wrong.


39 posted on 01/27/2005 9:55:50 AM PST by Zyke (Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you are saying. -Emerson)
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To: stuartcr
Not convincing....requires 'reasonable' faith in the bible (evidence).

Hmmmmmmmm.........all of Romans Chapter 10

40 posted on 01/27/2005 9:56:07 AM PST by maestro
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