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Graffito Wall
1 posted on 01/20/2005 6:44:05 AM PST by NYer
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To: NYer
Where Peter is, there is the church

Really? gosh, and all this time I was wasting my time thinking I was in Christ, not in Peter! Thanks for tipping me off to this profound truth.

2 posted on 01/20/2005 6:46:53 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Go Howard Go!)
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...

Old St. Peter's

The first basilica of St. Peter's in Rome, a five-aisled basilican-plan church with apsed transept at the west end that was begun between 326 and 333 at the order of the Roman emperor Constantine and finished about 30 years later. The church was entered through an atrium called Paradise that enclosed a garden with fountains.

The simple sanctuary of the Prince of the Apostles gave place under Constantine the Great to a magnificent basilica, begun in the year 323 but not completed until after his death. The southern side of the ancient basilica was erected upon the northern side of the circus, which in the Middle Ages bore the name Palatium Neronis. It was built in the form of a cross and divided into five naves by four rows of twenty-two columns each. Vast treasures were collected in the course of centuries in this principal sanctuary of Western Christendom: precious mosaic decoration internally and externally, offerings of great value surrounding the tomb of the Prince of the Apostles, magnificent vestments in the wardrobes of the sacristy, richly decorated entablature, and bright but harmoniously coloured pavements, paintings, and whatever else the love and veneration of high and low could conceive in the way of adornment. Connecting the basilica with the Porta di S. Pietro at the Castle of Sant' Angelo was a covered colonnade, through which innumerable pilgrims passed. Provision was made in the Vatican territory for their shelter, and the necessity soon arose of building a palace near the basilica in which the pope could live and receive visitors when sojourning at St. Peter's. Churches and monasteries, cemeteries and hospices arose in great numbers around the tomb of the "fisher of men".

3 posted on 01/20/2005 6:49:32 AM PST by NYer ("In good times we enjoy faith, in bad times we exercise faith." ... Mother Angelica)
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To: NYer; Agrarian; Tantumergo; FormerLib; Cronos

""Where Peter is, there is the church … he who is not with the Pope is not with God, and who desires to be with God must be with the Pope.""

Sort of a combination of a very corrupted quote from +Ignatius of Antioch and the 11th century Dictatus Papae, isn't it.


4 posted on 01/20/2005 7:06:11 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: NYer
"Where Peter is, there is the church … he who is not with the Pope is not with God, and who desires to be with God must be with the Pope."

NYer, with all due respect, this statement is flat out blasphemy. To believe this, you must believe Jesus Christ is a liar. He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6-7.

5 posted on 01/20/2005 7:11:39 AM PST by Rokke
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To: NYer

"Feed my flock."

"I give you the keys to the kingdom."


6 posted on 01/20/2005 7:13:53 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer

BLASPHEMY, the idea that there is some Mother of the Messiah going around telling everyone what to do is absolutely rediculous. Every great message of God was sent by an Archangel or a lesser angel. When will Catholics understand that Mary delivered Yeshua so Yeshua could deliver her? There is no vision of the holy mother, or of the saints etc. it is all fabricated to take the focus off of the Messiah. This is why I left Catholicism and now have a personal relationship with Jesus the Christ. Religion is man's way of controlling God through seperate dogma and doctrine. I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE! Dogma ends there.


10 posted on 01/20/2005 7:55:39 AM PST by mhuye (Quit Crucifying the Messiah again and again with this Mother Mary nonsense!)
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To: NYer

Petrus rogat Iesus Christus

A question about Latin grammar: Anyone know why the nominative case "Iesus Christus" is used here instead of the expected accusative case "Iesum Christum"?


90 posted on 01/21/2005 4:12:06 PM PST by Hibernius Druid (Perseverantia Vincit!)
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To: NYer
Where Peter is, there is the church

If this is supposed to mean that the Pope is paramount because his authority descends from Peter, there's a little problem. The problem is that the link was broken in the 13th century by Philip Le Bel and Guillaume de Nogart who kidnapped and killed one Pope, assassinated another and then stole the Papacy and moved it, lock stock and Earthly power, to France. Thus began the Avignon captivity. (don't bother to damn the French - they already are)

I believe that there have been truly holy men who have occupied the Papacy since it was returned to Rome. There have also been great sinners. Regardless, I believe the link to Peter has been irrevocably broken.

That was the point that the Cathars had in mind.

They are conveniently on the move again. This time moving through "history" and popular literature (soon to be a major motion picture, starring Tom Hanks).

There are still links to the Apostolic era. The Cele Dei still resides in a few places, but mostly in hiding. Some Orthodox churches in far flung places still continue lines unbroken from the Apostles. The Santhome Cathedral, where the Apostle Thomas was buried, was reportedly spared the recent Tsunami. Is there an unbroken link there? And are the Poor Knights of the Temple truly gone?

We must not confuse the actions of good men with the actions of God. We must not ascribe God's plan to a place or a tradition if the place and tradition have been corrupted by acts of evil men serving a different master.

INCOMING!!!!!!!!

104 posted on 01/21/2005 7:58:29 PM PST by Phsstpok ("When you don't know where you are, but you don't care, you're not lost, you're exploring.")
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To: NYer
"Love G-d and love one another"

all else is vanity, IMHO.

190 posted on 01/23/2005 6:01:01 AM PST by muir_redwoods
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