Posted on 11/15/2004 6:36:24 PM PST by Deo volente
Sinful or Certainly Sinful
Vatican Curial Priests on Cardinal Mahony's "Rebellion"
BY FARLEY CLINTON
Naturally, the claim by Cardinal Mahony that he can authorize priests to ignore the liturgical rules the pope imposes on the Church has provoked comment and a fair amount of indignation among some of the clergy in Rome.
I asked more than half a dozen American priests what they thought about it -- and a few non-American priests too.
Of course there are American priests in Rome besides those who work for the Holy See; for instance, those who are teaching or studying theology here. But, understandably, the ones who are working directly with the pope's official advisors and assistants, in the curia, are particularly unhappy about Cardinal Mahony's claim.
What the Los Angeles rebellion implies, some suggested, is a crude denial that papal acts have any claim to be obeyed -- although a diocesan bishop, such as Mahony, swears to obey the pope. One priest said, "well, and so what is the point of the pope saying anything, if what he says can be brushed off for any reason, as Cardinal Mahony claims it can? If a bishop can just set aside the general discipline of the Church, in part or as a whole? And no one in the Church is presumed to be bound by her rules and laws?"
Another, who has been observing the smoldering conflict in California for some time, said "it is important, too, in this dispute that Cardinal Mahony is publicly insisting the pope is out-and-out wrong about what the pope condemns as an important liturgical abuse. This comes very close to a doctrinal difference -- to a split with the Church, a rejection of her faith. The Catholic liturgy expresses the Catholic faith, just as much as the creeds do; and a bishop, or a priest, who won't use it, a priest who insists on changing it, or a bishop who lets it be changed, is interfering seriously with the teaching of the Faith and is virtually leaving the Church.
"If you are curious about the issue," continued this priest, "just look up what Saint Thomas Aquinas said. He proposes to discuss a strange-sounding question -- whether the worship of God (the worship of the one true God) can be a sin. And he says: yes, it certainly can be, if the priest falsely represents the faith taught by the Church -- and any change that a priest makes in the liturgy of the Church alters the official expression of the Church's faith, and that is certainly sinful."
The Council of Trent, too, said this priest, "defined that a priest is not free to innovate. It is a Catholic dogma, defined by that council, that anybody who says that a priest is not bound to follow the rituals of the Church whenever he administers her sacraments is anathematized -- out of the Church. Not the priest who actually changes the liturgy on his own is excommunicated, no; but it is anyone who says that a priest like that is not sinning when he changes the words of the Mass. Anyone who says that is excommunicated."
This priest also suggested looking through the Vatican II documents ("if you have a lot of time"). "They make the same point," he said. "Brevity, which is the soul of wit, is not the soul of all the Vatican II documents, but this point is repeated sharply and succinctly enough in the key documents."
From what this priest called a "'tradition' of weirdness" that arose after the council, Catholics have gotten the idea "that the Church, the pope and the bishops whom the Holy Ghost raises up to rule the Church lack any real authority to control the celebration of the Mass and, in God's name, to forbid innovations. And that is just what Mahony has been saying -- but when it is said so crudely as he said it, and by a cardinal of all people, it looks so completely wrong that even today people feel really shocked. Cardinal Mahony is telling us that he will not allow the pope to forbid anything. And many people are really shocked."
The priest opined that when Cardinal Mahony "asserts that he knows of no abuses in Los Angeles, I doubt he really expects to be believed. Who will believe that no one in the archdiocese of Los Angeles has complained about grave liturgical abuses in the twenty years since Mahony has been the ordinary? Or that things the Holy See has condemned really do not go on out there?
"What Cardinal Mahony means is that rules established by the pope for the Catholic Church don't bind the cardinal and don't bind any of the local priests. It is a declaration of independence from the pope, the canon law, and the whole liturgical tradition in the Church. While many of the laity consider that some things are abuses, and the pope explicitly supports what they say, [Cardinal Mahony] says that the only important thing is that he, Roger Mahony, does not say that -- and the pope can't make him."
According to this priest, "a similar attack on the very idea of the authority of the pope happened almost three decades ago, under Paul VI. The situation was just the same. The pope made a rule concerning the administration of the sacraments, and an American priest loudly denied that Rome could bind America. So Cardinal Baum (then archbishop of Washington) remarked to a priest I knew -- 'Oh? Well, then exactly what authority can in fact the pope have, if he has no authority over the sacraments?'"
From their vehement comments, you would think some priests in the curia were actually surprised by what Mahony said. But I noticed that these seemed to be chiefly the younger priests. A more experienced American priest quoted bitter things that he heard said about Mahony and then sourly commented: "if you ask me, Cardinal Mahony ought to have been removed quite some time ago."
I interrupted him -- "Oh, but -- well.... That is never done, you know. With a cardinal, you know," I said.
"It really ought to be in this case," he replied. "And some others. It chiefly surprises me now... that these priests actually seem to be surprised. As though they had really expected anything better. But how is that possible? Could anyone in Rome not know about this man by now?"
An ecclesiastic who is long-winded but well-informed, in a good position to know a lot about both Rome and America, said, "this whole thing is very simple. I can tell you exactly what is going on. The key to the situation is that Mahony is using Joe Bernardin's liturgical expert. The very first thing Cardinal George wanted when he got to Chicago was to get that liturgist out of Chicago. George wanted to get Chicago back into the Catholic Church, if possible, and clearly that had to be the first step.
"But Mahony was only too delighted to take him. So that is the man calling the shots here -- that is the man who really wrote the funny letter Mahony brought out a little while back -- 'Gathering Rosebuds While We May,' or whatever they called it." The ecclesiastic, of course, meant Mahony's 1999 liturgy pastoral, Gather Faithfully Together.
"And Mahony knows just what he is doing," continued the ecclesiastic. "Exactly. Right now Mahony is the leader of the American schism. That seems to be the way he sees himself and the way all others see him, if they know anything.
"Those glass vases on the altars he dithers on about are a symbol of the war against the pope, the Mass, Catholic theology -- the outward signs of an inward lack of grace."
But will the Holy See take any disciplinary measures against Mahony? "The pope will not call him up on the phone and talk about this," said our ecclesiastic. "Another cardinal might, possibly, conceivably. That is about as far as disciplinary measures would go. Mahony is not easy to deal with when he is angry, when someone has dared to suggest that all is not well.
"Hell hath no fury like Mahony scorned. And he really is scorned, isn't he?
"Cardinal Ratzinger has strongly urged the pope, they say, to remove prelates who seem to have gone too far. But after the first year or two [of his reign], the pope apparently stopped trying. After all, these are men of mature age, and they ought to know their duty, but their habits are hard to change.
"So Mahony is not afraid of losing either his hat or the unfortunate archdiocese of Los Angeles."
I should add that when I began to ask about the position of Cardinal Mahony, there was one question that no one was willing to answer. The obvious persons to ask were those who by their special knowledge of theology, or their employment, seemed prepared to speak with some authority about the defined dogmas of the faith and the excommunications that fall on those who deny these dogmas. But these, unfortunately, were just the priests who in the last week seemed too embarrassed to answer this question.
The question was the following -- among the most authoritative of papal statements is the pronouncement Auctorem Fidei of August 28, 1794. In this document it was defined by Pope Pius VI that it is schismatic for anyone to assert that local bishops are not bound by the rules the pope has set down for the whole Church. In view of what Pius VI solemnly defined as schismatic, is Cardinal Mahony in schism? Or is it true, at least, that anybody who says Cardinal Mahony is doing the right thing and can be defended by good Catholics -- would anybody, who chose to say that, be guilty of schism and, technically, incur the excommunication?
For some reason this question made certain priests extremely nervous. Panic-stricken, in fact.
And the more learned they are, the more important their positions, the more agitated they seem to be by this simple question. For whatever reason they preferred not to say, "yes." But they evidently thought it was impossible to say, "no."
More non-existent abuses in Los Angeles:
http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/closing/MVC-306S.htm
http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/closing/MVC-309S.htm
http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/closing/MVC-334S.htm
http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/closing/MVC-357S.htm
A more apt debate would be whether or not he venerates satan.
That stuff is in no way Catholic; but then again neither is Mahoney.
I guess it shows that as bad as it is here, it could be worse.
Yes.........and you and all the membership of the USCCB should know their names so they can be punished for speak the truth forthrightly.
. But, I will NEVER reveal my real identity on FR
Awwwww.......gee........that will make it ever so hard for us to put you on Canon Law trial for heresy.
Darn!.......(lowering head, kicking at rocks with feet, slowly shuffling away, pouting)
"Cardinal Ratzinger has strongly urged the pope, they say, to remove prelates who seem to have gone too far. But after the first year or two [of his reign], the pope apparently stopped trying. After all, these are men of mature age, and they ought to know their duty, but their habits are hard to change."
Sede vacationism?
LOL! I was just thinking when I read this - "But after the first year or two [of his reign], the pope apparently stopped trying" - that the pope is somewhat like Celestine V, except that JPII didn't physically resign. He simply absented himself from the disciplinary and administrative parts of his job.
He kept the public relations and "literary" parts of it, and turned into the most prolific writer and dedicated traveler of any pope. But somehow I think those are the least of the duties of the Keeper of the Keys.
Don't like my posts, don't read them.
At least we now know that it is recognized...and a few of the other little details that came out here.
He SHOULD be removed, angry and scorned or not. That man is a menace.
Hey! What's the matter with you people?
America is full of people actually celebrating the Tradition Latin Mass, who must be stomped out!
Nothing to see here. Move on.
"This article is loaded with gutless, nameless priests. No name, no credibility."
Squawk! Plop...plop...plop...
Oh -come on... Feigning fear says much... -Truth has nothing to fear...
He waited the problems out. Gradually, they are resolving themselves by attrition and death and the newer bishops are far more conservative. They are part of the future.
I actually think this is a possitive sign. The article indicates that the hold Bernardin had over the church has faded and that people aren't afraid of Mahoney like they were of Bernardin. The fact that there was even an article addressing the heresy coming from Mahoney is pretty amazing.
"But after the first year or two [of his reign], the pope apparently stopped trying"
If he had been serious about trying, he would have taken a plane to Los Angeles and other places and driven these heretics from the Church by beating them over head with his crozier.
Go right ahead. Put your real name out on a public forum.
Is this a mahonyism?
Maybe you miss the point -your posts are innocuous, self centered and laughable... I would suggest the distaste and affront to your posts is not all about you and is exhibited in regard to the harm you may do others ignorant and potentially led astray by your various dissenting positions...
LOL. The 'fun' parts of the job. Truth is, I don't think this Pope has the temperment of a great administrator. That's just my impression. He does love man, though. And probably sees that as the defining element of Catholicsm. Sees himself as the Vicar of Christ, loving Man with the same intensity, as the highest Papal good.
He doesn't seem to be feared at all by the organization's practice setting heirarchy.
There was an article posted here a few weeks ago, by someone who seemed to be very fond of him, who stated that JPII was not fond of ordinary governance. Well, who is? It is a dirty job, but it has to be done. Even a great administrator will be mocked and disobeyed, but when that head administrator embraces the role with half a heart, the stage has been set for extraordinary confusion.
And as my Priest said in Sunday's Sermon, confusion is Satan's biggest ally.
Yaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh! Don't those two pictures make the eyeballs spin! Good night nurse, already! Tacky and tasteless 101 is a live and well in Mahoneyland! This man is in need of having the application of the left foot of fellowship out the chruch-house door applied to his rusty dusty!
Note - the following is a rhetorical question. No need to answer it, I already know the answer:
If the Vatican is so indignant about the latest Mahoney stunt, then why the heck don't they take real and meaningful action and show us "ordinary" folks that they really give a hoot about stopping us from being poisoned by all the dreck?!
Yes, he appears not to have enjoyed the governance part of the job. And, as Desdemona pointed out, it seemed that he waited for attrition to take care of the problems.
However, in the 25 years or so that it has taken (and alas, with the Mahonys and Skylsteds of this world still around and in power, it's not over yet), the Church has been seriously damaged, and I attribute much of that to the hands-off attitude of this pope. Perhaps he was afraid of meeting the fate of JPI, which was probably a valid concern.
But when one considers all of the faith (and even lives) lost during this period because of the failure to remove heterodox bishops, priests and heads of religious orders, defend orthodox doctrine and practice with something other than ambiguous words, and enforce Catholic support for Catholic policies in the public arena, I think he's going to have a lot to answer for. Obviously, it's up to God to judge and I'm sure there are things I don't know about that enter into this.
But looking at the ruin that the collapse of the Catholic Church brought to the lives of many people I have known over the years, including family members, I have to say that it looks as though the sheep were not very well defended from the wolf.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.