PATRIARCH’S PARDON: Vartholomaios forgives Catholics for sack of Constantinople in 1204

ekathimerini.com ^ | Wednesday April 14, 2004 | ekathimerini.com

[Destro]

bump

[FBDinNJ]

Well since we're forgiving each other for historical grievances I think Catholics need to do a little bit of forgiving too.

On behalf of the Catholics here I would like to say that we forgive our Eastern brethren for all of the horrible things they have done throughout the years, but especially for....

- 378 AD loosing the Battle of Adrianople which led to the downfall of the Western Roman Empire
- 410 AD Complete inaction when Alaric and his Visigoth Army sacked Rome
- 476 AD Doing absolutely nothing when Odoacer deposed the last Western Emperor, Romulus Augustus.

Now when I remember some more of the evil things our Eastern brethren have done I'll be sure to post it

>)

[FBDinNJ]

* Romulus Augustulus

[Between the Lines]

"We cannot forget that tragic day for Constantinople and for our Patriarchate but we forgive... and we accept with satisfaction the expression of their regret and the reassurance that the West will never again undertake such an abomination against the Christians of the East", Vartholomaios said. "It is a fact that a great sin was committed against Constantinople 800 years ago,"

This sounds less like an apology and more like a condemnation.

[eastsider]

Seems we've been forgiven for the "rescue mission" ...

[Romulus]

OK, but we're still not giving back the bronze horses 'n' loot 'n' stuff.

[Romulus]

?It is a fact that a great sin was committed against Constantinople 800 years ago,? Cardinal Barbarin said.

Putting one in mind of what Pasquino said when Pope Urban VIII (Maffeo Barberini) summarily stripped the gilded bronze sheathing from the portico of the Pantheon: "Quod non fecerunt barbari, fecit Barberini."

[Dajjal]

Fourth Crusade ping

[gbcdoj]

I don't understand why this is an issue. Everyone involved in these incidents died 750 years ago. Catholics today don't bear collective guilt and they don't need to be "forgiven" for this "sin" by anyone.

And the word of the Lord came to me, saying: What is the meaning? That you use among you this parable as a proverb in the land of Israel, saying: The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the teeth of the children are set on edge. As I live, saith the Lord God, this parable shall be no more to you a proverb in Israel. Behold all souls are mine: as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, the same shall die. (Ezechiel 18.1-4)

[Polycarp IV]

ping: Looky here...don't we feel better now?

[Destro]

Your history is flawed. There was no division of the Church in those eras and those battles and causes for those battle were of secular origin. The Crusades was a Pope inspired and blessed army of Catholics.

[Destro]

Not returning the Shroud of "Turin"?

[Destro]

You can still hold a body responsible - the individualCatholics are long dead but their church continues and still holds those looted relics (Shroud of Turin being one of many).

[Polycarp IV]

Patriarch Accepts Apology From the Pope

The Associated Press

Istanbul, Apr. 14--(AP) Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians, has accepted an apology from Pope John Paul II for Roman Catholic involvement in the sacking of Constantinople 800 years ago.

During a visit to Greece in 2001, John Paul apologized for the attack on the city, today's Istanbul, which was looted by Catholic Crusaders. The apology had long been sought by Orthodox.
In a speech Tuesday--the 800th anniversary of the city's capture--Bartholomew formally accepted the apology. "The spirit of reconciliation is stronger than hatred," Bartholomew said during a liturgy, attended by Philippe Barbarin, the Archbishop of Lyon, France. "We receive with gratitude and respect your cordial gesture for the tragic events of the Fourth Crusade."

Bartholomew said his acceptance came in the spirit of Easter. "The spirit of reconciliation of the resurrection ... incites us toward reconciliation of our churches," the patriarch said.

Bartholomew and John Paul have both emphasized reconciliation between the two churches, split since 1054. "It is a fact that a crime was committed here in the city 800 years ago," Barbarin said.

In his 2001 apology, John Paul said he would ask for God's forgiveness for "sins of action and omission" by Roman Catholics against Orthodox Christians, including "painful memories" of the Crusades--such as the April 13, 1204 sacking of Constantinople. The city was subject to three days of looting, in which many of the city's treasures were taken or destroyed.

The Greek Orthodox Byzantine Empire ultimately collapsed when the Muslim Ottoman Turks conquered the city in 1453, but the Patriarchate remained. Bartholomew is considered "first among equals" among Orthodox patriarchs and directly controls several Greek Orthodox churches around the world, including the Archdiocese of America.

[Flying Circus]

I say we should give it all back to help with the restoration of the Hagia Sofia. The prerequisite of this, of course, is that or eastern brothers need to retake Byzantium from the Muslims and be able to hold onto it.

[livius]

That's good. Now let's all get ready to square off and face our joint historic enemy: Islam.

[Destro]

Let us see what Christian king arises that will lead a united Christendom into battle.

[Desdemona]

Not returning the Shroud of "Turin"?

Probably not.

And I get the feeling St. Mark will be staying in Venice.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Has JP II apologized to the Lutherans, Huegenots, Anglicans, etc. for the wars fought to reunite Christianity?

This Pope has more pressing issues to deal with than this garbage...the Russian Orthodox still won't let him visit Russia.