Russell Shaw: Why the '60s Wend Wrong; Candid Cardinals (Catholic)

Zenit ^ | March 25, 2004 | Delia Gallagher

[cebadams]

For those who may be reluctant to read the whole article here is a quick summary:

"You bring those factors to bear on a pre-existing state of affairs in which there was a squishiness at least in some seminaries circles on the subject of priestly celibacy and the obligations of priests, and you can see fairly clearly why the disaster that happened did happen," he observed.

"Unnecessary secrecy is a large part of the explanation for why the sex scandal turned out as badly as it did."

Catholic lay people, Shaw thinks, are also implicated in the general crisis. "American Catholics generally -- if the public opinion polls are to be accepted as truthful, and I think they should be on this matter -- long ago bought into the sexual ethic of secular America," he said. "'Humanae Vitae' is widely rejected in theory and practice by American Catholics. Abortion rates among nominal Catholics in the United States are quite high, etc. etc.

"The Catholic Church in the United States is a Church which somehow over the decades has become much too fond of money and much too fond of the little comforts which money can buy," said Shaw. "Harsh as it may sound, I would say that although I'm very, very sad that in the settlement of sex abuse cases so much money has ended up in the pockets of lawyers, on the whole I'm not at all sorry to see the money go," he said. "I think it will be a good thing for the Church in the long run to have a little less and maybe a lot less money to play around with."

[cebadams]

Consider posting this to your ping list please.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

Defenders of the Faith Ping!!

Interesting article, thing he is right on about Humanae Vitae's rejection resulting in damage to the Church. Anyway, discussion is encouraged, enjoy.

[dmz]

You left out of your summary, though, one very important fact, the when.

Things were starting to go sour in the 1950's, which is good bit earlier than most would like to admit. It really means also that the baby boomers, who are blamed for almost everything rotten in Denmark (so to speak), simply continued that which was already starting to go bad. There were no baby boomers in seminaries in the late 50's as they were too young.

[Desdemona]

Interesting article, thing he is right on about Humanae Vitae's rejection resulting in damage to the Church.

True. People were looking for affirmation of what they were doing. A lot of my family fell away at that point.

[NeoCaveman]

Interesting article, thing he is right on about Humanae Vitae's rejection resulting in damage to the Church.

While I wasn't born yet, it seems that everyone though that everything was up for grabs and for discussion in the 1960's including matters of faith and morals. They were mistaken.

[Unam Sanctam]

I don't know why people criticize the new norms. Of course there should be due process, but if one is convicted, why shouldn't there be zero tolerance for the abuse of children? Of course, the seminaries also need to be cleaned up, discipline enforced and Catholic doctrine pure and entire needs to be inculcated in the clergy and the faithful.

[cebadams]

>> I don't know why people criticize the new norms. Of course there should be due process, but if one is convicted, why shouldn't there be zero tolerance for the abuse of children?

Because zero-tolerance is such a politically correct way to deal with abuse. Let's face it, abuse is a criminal offense and should be treated as one. Shaw makes a good point about transparency. The notion that the Bishop's felt that they had to deal with abuse cases outside of the context of law was their first mistake.

As a parent I don't want platitudes about zero-tolerance; I want to know that suspected criminal activity is promptly turned over to the criminal justice system.

[Unam Sanctam]

But nothing you have said contradicts the basic soundness of the notion that those convicted under Church law of abusing the young should receive zero tolerance. I just don't see what is "politically correct" or wrong about that notion -- it seems common sense to me.

[cebadams]

>> Things were starting to go sour in the 1950's

Agreed. Some like to think that things went south after or as a result of Vatican II but the attendees at Vatican II were clearly born prior to the 1950s.

[cebadams]

>> ... those convicted under Church law of abusing the young should receive zero tolerance.

Criminal activity (of any kind) should be handled by the local criminal justice system first -- give unto Caesar and all that. The whole Church tribunal thing is a diversion and will tend to keep complaints behind closed doors. Only those complaints that make it into the public forum will be dealt the zero-tolerance policy.

If there isn't a conviction from the local criminal justice system then and only then should the local Church legal system step in to determine whether there is cause for further action.

[Unam Sanctam]

I disagree. Canon law and civil law are entirely different spheres. Both should be allowed their full province. If one breaches civil law, one should be dealt with by the civil law. If one breaches canon law, one should be dealt with by canon law. If one breaches both, one should be dealt with by both. The state has no right to interfere in canon law and the Church should not be dependent on the state for enforcing its own internal rules.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

So was I, so was I. In fact, I wasn't to be in the picture physically for a rather long time when Humane Vitae came out.

[NeoCaveman]

In fact, I wasn't to be in the picture physically for a rather long time when Humane Vitae came out.

Aww heck, I wasn't even born until 2 years after Roe v. Wade

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

still got you beat

[NeoCaveman]

You win. Congratulations. I'd say you win a beer but they are checking ID's. LOL.

[cebadams]

>> Canon law and civil law are entirely different spheres. Both should be allowed their full province.

Hiding priests in institutions and moving them around is not part of Canon Law. Shaw brings up very good points about transparency. Civil Law gets to decide if there was a criminal offense. It is necessary that both be allowed to work in their respective jurisdictions.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

1982

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

And I enjoyed the full Religion Program of CCD till 5th grade, Parochial School until 8th and the Jesuits till 12th, think I did pretty all things considered.

[NeoCaveman]

think I did pretty all things considered.

From your posts I'd say you escaped unscathed.