Mel Gibson: $5 Mil to Fringe Church (FOX attacks "antiquated Catholic ideology")

FOX ^ | Friday, February 20, 2004 | By Roger Friedman

[Salvation]

**So instead of Revelation, may I suggest Ecclesiastes 3:1-8? ("To everything there is a season...")**

Excellent suggestion. One of my favorite chapters in the entire Bible!

[Salvation]

No it isn't. Each Catholic bishop or archbishop can denote one parish for a Catholic Latin Mass. Whether he does it or not is his doing. But it is not prohibited by Rome.

Requests for Indults (Latin Masses) go in to Rome all the time.

[Siobhan]

Gibson follows an excommunicated sect. He, therefore is excommunicated. The Decree excommunicating Marcel Lefebvre was issue by John Paul II in 1988.

I shall put this delicately. You are dead wrong. You do not know what you are talking about. You should exercise custodianship of your hands and refrain from typing about things concerning which you know absolutely nothing at all.

[LisaMalia]

They're discussing it on Heartland (FoxNews) now.

[Maximilian]

But I am guessing you do not approve of a woman being a lector or reader. Am I right?

You are correct. Luckily, it's not an issue at the Latin Mass. Like all the rest of these abuses, rather than attempt fruitlessly to attack them one at a time, you can cut every last one off at the source simply by attending the traditional Catholic Mass.

[Siobhan]

I'm sorry, Salvation, but I believe you have forgotten some possibilities that obtain for the very strange situation in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Throughout Catholic history, the Popes have permitted chapels to be erected that were outside of the control of the diocesan bishop. It is a very interesting and peculiar bit of historical footnotes, but such things have happened and do happen. The Holy Father has real and immediate power to do many things and that can include the erection of a chapel with permissions granted for the saying of Mass, reservation of the sacrament, benediction, perpetual adoration. Indeed, all sorts of things have been sought and granted and have been done so in pectore. Please be careful in jumping on sinkspur's bandwagon to condemn Mel Gibson and the chapel he erected. Not everything is revealed to the public just because the press or the public want to know -- or even because the Archdiocese of Los Angeles under the leadership of Cardinal Mahony wants to know. There have long been bishops consecrated in pectore and cardinals named .

I perfectly understand if you disagree with me or believe me to be on the wrong page. I have my reasons for my position just as you do for citing your up to now. In pace Christi, Siobhan

[Huber]

How could the teachings of Vatican 2 be 'universally accepted' if in the same sentence he says that this church in particular rejects some of those teachings? It can't be 'universally accepted' if one group doesn't accept them.

They ARE universally accepted within the Catholic Church.

Since Catholic means universal, they are universally accepted in the universal church, which is like "universal squared" accepted or "really, really" accepted.

PS: No need to thank me for this profound theological insight. It's my pleasure...

[RaginCajunTrad]

Personally I don't think it is a good idea to have women in the sanctuary, period. I won't argue on scriptural grounds, simply as a practical matter. Allowing women in the sanctuary entices the radical feminists to bellow for even more "rights." Some non-radical-feminist women will be "converted" to radical feminism by being in the sanctuary. Additionally, the more often you put women in the sanctuary, the more the men will stay away. They will simply let the women do it. A way to solve this is to have no one but the priest and altar BOYS in the sanctuary. The priest can do the readings. We don't need lay people to do them. The sancuary is special ground. Priests and servers only. Men have been somewhat "de-balled" since the 1960's liberal revolution, in both the secular and religious arenas. The media doesn't help. For father figures we have gone from Father Knows Best and My Three Sons to Archie Bunker and Fred Sanford to Al Bundy and Homer Simpson. Having women take over in the Church, gives men an additional excuse to be Al Bundy and Homer Simpson.

[RaginCajunTrad]

More than one parish in a diocese can be designated for an Indult Mass. The bishop, in theory, could give all the priests in the diocese permission to pray the Traditional Mass any time they desire. No bishops do. Most bishops are recalcitrant in that matter and restrict the Indult Masses to one parish in the diocese one day a week often at odd times. Some bishops won't allow it at all.

[sinkspur]

I shall put this delicately. You are dead wrong. You do not know what you are talking about.

Nope. He was excommnunicated in 1988 when he ordained four bishops without authority from the Pope.

It is you who don't know the facts of this situation.

You can look them up. There are dozens of threads which detail the facts.

[Squantos]

Does this have reference to the "Trad" thang ya'll spoke of last month ?

Stay safe !

[VermiciousKnid]

People aren't aware that there is an alternative. I wasn't aware of the alternative for many years. People feel trapped in their Novus Ordo hell where they get to hear heresy from the pulpit and off-key lounge singing accompanied by guitars. They just stop going. That has been the decision of the large majority of Catholics, "Just say no."

This has been my experience as well. I am among those who continue to go to church every week, and every week I hope for the best. But more often than not, I am deeply disappointed by the seemingly never-ending innovations that come down the pike with alarming frequency.

And I'm not alone. The other mothers I speak to are equally upset, but when I ask them to join me in protesting, they hesitate. They are intimidated by both the pastor, who is an utterly unrepentent hippy-dippy type, and the Liturgy Committee, which is made up of individuals who are equally hippy-dippy.

I'll tell you this: If all of a sudden a miracle happened, and the pope ordered all parishes to offer at least one traditional rite Mass per week, the place would be PACKED --especially with the families of the kids who attend the school (I know I'd certainly be there).

Regards,

[AAABEST]

Yes, of course possenti and I can't go anywhere without being called "fringe", even when we give our lives to Christ.

Anyone who acts as Americans did before the summer of love is considered "fringe" to a leftist.

[american colleen]

I agree with you. Last week I attended a 4 PM afternoon Mass in a parish that I had not attended before. It's in a different diocese than the one I am in although it's only 20 minutes from my house. The priest was very good compared to the priest in my own parish. First time I have heard the Confetior outside of EWTN! The Mass was half full, an older crowd (55+ - 60+ mostly women and a few old men, just like the Saturday 5 PM at my own parish and in most parishes that have a Sat. afternoon Mass). This week I attended that same 4 PM Mass again except it was said by a priest who I later found out is an assistant priest who lives in the rectory but mostly does a hospital ministry, interestingly, he is from Ireland and maybe about 40 years old. Well, this priest was FANTASTIC! Everything you would want in a NO Mass - including the Hail Mary. The place was packed. Tons of young guys with small and medium kids. Traditional music, a homily that nearly brought tears to my eyes and which both my kids understood and listened to intently and talked about after Mass (now that never happens!). The priest was a "Baltimore Catechism" type priest and 100% Catholic and not afraid to be that way. He explained the readings and intertwined them with authentic Catholic teaching. Later I went over to my sisters house for a birthday party and she told me that the families in this town love this priest and beg the bishop to assign him his own parish. She says the families call the rectory and ask which Masses this priest is saying because they want their kids exposed to Catholicism.

[american colleen]

If I may be so bold... I believe Siobhan is talking about the status of Mel Gibson and not the status of Bishop Lefebvre.

There is nothing that links Mel Gibson's adherence to the SSPX (aside of third hand media info, speculation on the part of the media and the imaginations of some SSPXers). In fact, there was Mass said on the set of "The Passion of the Christ" each day and most of the crew attended. The crew included Jim Caviezel (not an SSPXer) and Jesuits were all over the place (definitely not SSPXers!).

[narses]

The so called and self proclaimed "deacon" claims Mel Gibson is a schismatic excommunicant. He appears to have NO evidence for such a claim. Therefore his claim maybe a sinful calumny or slander. In fact, were I in Los Angeles, I'd do as Mel Gibson has. To affiliate with the heretical and defacto schismatic Abp. Mahoney (who now says it is OK to be a Mason), would be an ongoing occasion of sin and a grave risk to the souls of my family.

[Possenti]

Yep. "Fringe" - I actually haven't heard that one in a while - I'm sort of used to being called "radical / extremist / old-fashioned", and let's not forget "skizmat".

More power to Mel. The lefties are only fueling the fire to give him one of the biggest box-office hits in decades. I expect the DVD/VHS sales to break all records. My wife just went to go buy advance tickets.

BTW - the private chapel I go to is also called "Holy Family" - named by the priest who drives almost two hours every Sunday to offer Mass there.

[AAABEST]

named by the priest who drives almost two hours every Sunday to offer Mass there.

Yep. He sounds like my priest, Father Karl.

He's over 80 years old and thanklessly travels all over Florida just for the pleasure of serving his Lord and tending his flock. They get nothing worldly in return except abject poverty and rejection from the Roman mothership.

That's what I call a servant of God.

[Possenti]

It's my understanding that during Lent, (traditional) Catholics shouldn't attend movies...

I'm sure there's an "exception clause" for this one???

[AAABEST]

LOL

I would tend to think a movie showing how Jesus was humiliated, tortured and executed would qualify as something allowable during a season where we're supposed to reflect on how Jesus was humiliated, tortured and executed!