Posted on 02/02/2004 5:29:31 AM PST by AAABEST
Disclosure: A sinner who at times can be the worst possible messenger is the author of this thread. Please dont let him get in the way of what is being witnessed and be sure to rebuke him should he be wrong.
Someone had asked Why are you a Catholic? or some such not to long ago. I'd like to take a few moments to answer that question, if I may.
During my life, Ive been to nearly every type of service you could imagine and have looked at nearly every form of Christianity there is. Ive been to tiny Baptist churches in rural Georgia as well as attending a service with Jerry Falwell presiding over thousands. Ive been to many Lutheran services and have examined Lutheranism and Martin Luther extensively.
While serving in the military I attended all kinds of services. Although Catholic was on my dog-tags, when youre sitting in the middle of the Saudi desert youre lucky if you can even get your hands on a bible, much less get picky about what service is assembled in your AO. On Sundays, during basic training, I attended the Catholic masses and then would go straight to the Protestant services, just to get away from my drill Sergeants.
Ive worshiped with Messianic Jews in their Temple, have examined 7th Day Advents and even thoroughly researched (and dont hate me for this) the dreaded scientology.
My biggest problem with any of the non-Catholic religions is that they all, at some point or another wind up becoming an authority unto themselves. This is what has always my dead-end.
Whenever any given religion would have a particular doctrine, ethos, ritual, custom or practice that was particular to them and not based in scripture, I would always find myself asking, by what authority do they do this? I found comfort in the fact that while Rome is highly imperfect (one un-Catholic aspect of me is not believing in Papal infallibility) I could always rely on thousands of years of study, debate, divine inspiration and divine prophesy. Most the teachings and established doctrine of Catholicism come from extremely dedicated and brilliant scholars, sisters, clergy and even laypersons, with a few unexplainable miracles and revelations sprinkled in here and there.
Some will argue correctly that Jesus would be extremely saddened or even outraged at the condition of the church that He founded. Though with periods of exception it has been quite the impressive, if not divine authority.
That said, any of you, Catholic or not, who contend that our church is very sick right now will get no argument from me. I have no counter and would agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. There are some that are working to change that and if youll bear with this article there is more on that subject later.
Another reason why I stay Catholic is there is one aspect of the Catholic religion that I simply would not want to live without; That is the Holy Eucharist. Jesus states explicitly that through communion we will have everlasting life yet many other religions dont bother with communion and some try to state that its not actually the body of Christ that we partake in at all, but only a representation. If you are of this belief, allow me to be the first to tell you that have some very vital information.
This may come as a shock, but communion really is the body of Christ. It is not a ritual, a representation or something that contains his spirit. Its the actual body itself. There are at least three places in the Word where Christ tells us to do this in remembrance (Matthew 26:26, Mark 14:22, 1 Corinthians 11:24) of him, but there is at least one very important bit of scripture that some have chosen to ignore.
Sola scriptura? Then this is for you:
John 6
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.[/color]
This is one reason among many why I can never be anything but Catholic, the religion of my baptism. Even if other religions suddenly decided to take up the practice of Holy Communion, there is nobody more qualified than a priest to bless and give this sacrament. He is someone who has studied for years, given up everything including the possibility of having a family, to live without a home, in total poverty (as Christ did) just to simply serve our Lord. Nobody else (or very few) in my eyes has the authority to perform this very important rite. Many of my fellow Catholics would argue that this power was given directly to our priests from Peter himself, who received it from Christ.
This being said, I am sorry to report some bad news to my Catholic brethren. If your priest is a one of the enemys infiltrators that have penetrated our church or a God hating homosexual who is waking up with his boyfriend Sunday morning before putting his hands on your communion wafer, you are not receiving the body of Christ. Neither are your children. It saddens me to think that this is going on across the nation and the world but it most certainly is. Those who spit in Gods face are doing nothing more than pretending to give His children communion.
Which is on reason among many why I ran as fast as I could for traditional Catholicism (The Society of Saint Pius X or SSPX in my case). We dont have these people amongst our clergy. We also treat the body of Christ as if it really is the body.
Additionally, our mass and the process of blessing the Eucharist is the most sacred, beautiful and reverent found. Our dedicated fathers speak in the ancient Latin tongue that many of the apostles spoke in our earliest years Nearly the entire devotional mass is dedicated to His body and sharing it amongst us. I havent been able to get through one without crying yet. Ive received correspondence from people in tears describing incredible experiences. These are the masses that inspired Beethoven to write symphonies and some of the greatest works of art in history.
For some odd and inexplicable reason, certain evil forces in Rome (and on this forum) are trying to stomp us out. John Paul (for all of his faults, sins and fallibility) has not allowed this to happen. God will bless him for this. These masses will not go away, no matter how badly the enemy wants them to. The Lord is with us and there are some of us who will see to that, no matter what. Whether it means poverty, ridicule, ruin or even death, many of us have sold our garments and bought a sword (Luke 22:36), as Christ commanded on his last day on earth as a man.
Which is where Mel comes in.
Thank God our Lord and His incredible grace has sent us - everyone - a great ally, sword in hand just when we need him the most. A wonderful man (and fellow traditionalist) by the name of Mel Gibson is making a movie called The Passion. He is yet another artist who is creating a great work inspired by our very special form of worship, which he and the lead actor attended on regularly while filming.
Many of you are going to see this movie and never be the same. Our Lord will be speaking to you and I implore you with everything I have to listen when He speaks, for there is nothing better you can do for yourself, your children or the world than to listen to Him and let Him show you the way.
Please understand that while I and many other traditionalist Catholics can hardly contain our glee, this movie is for ALL PEOPLE- Christian, Catholic, Jewish and Atheist alike. Mel has made it very clear that this is for everyone and I do not want to leave the impression that the film belongs somehow to Catholics, traditionalists or even Christians. It doesnt belong to us and neither does Jesus belong to anyone.
And yeah okay, I (like most others who attend worship) would like to help build our flock. So I suppose you'll just have to forgive the shameless plug. Attend one of our services and make up your own mind.
While we are just overjoyed to have Mel and feel this will help our cause and message tremendously, the most joyful of all is that it will further our Lords message for all. It just doesnt get any better than that.
Lastly, I am not trying to sell you the Society or judge whatever form of religion you choose to partake in. I am only witnessing to you my first hand experience with Him. If any of what I have written is in err, I would like nothing more than to be rebuked or corrected. Whoever you are or wherever you come together in fellowship with God, I wish you and your family nothing but His blessings and pray that you and those you love share in His great Kingdom. Should any of you have any questions at all regarding this post, traditional Catholicism or the Society of Saint Pius X that you would rather not ask in public, please feel free to private message me.
In closing, I would like to borrow a line from my book The Story of the Mass (Newmann Press 1949, 2002):
my Protestant compatriot, for you call Christ a Savior
my Jewish brother, for your people gave us our Redeemer
my fellow Catholic, for we are one in Christ
Yours in peace, love and Christ
John Grasmeier
Yes, and you must make it a point to visit ME too! Then I'll make it a point to make you and whoever you bring with you an excellent meal.
Ah, I understand. Officially the society and almost all of us recognize his official authority, we're just forced to go "irregular" when he commands us to do something that is against our conscience.
It is painful. I have often left Mass with a broken heart because I see such mediocre progressives attempting to be "relevant" making a mockery of the Mass and the music and the liturgy.
But the command of obedience is not to be taken lightly...
Yes you're right about this. I love John Paul (even when he's stabbing me in the heart) and would do almost anything for him, except wrong. I won't do wrong for him.
Your broken heart indicates a man of our heart. Just so you know, you are not sinning or doing anything wrong if you were to attend an SSPX or trad mass. Nobody, within Rome or without would dare contend you were either, they know better. So you're safe if you want to bring your family to a mass.
I offer it up to God and I pray for restoration. I always speak up for a more traditional understanding of liturgy and catechesis when the opportunity presents itself.
I'm glad you pray for restoration as do I, because we "get it" and realize our church needs to be saved. Some here refuse to pray for unity, only for our downfall.
On a side note, for all it is, the church is also a political institution. I've had lots of dealing with such and I'm here to tell you political institutions don't change their ways unless they're forced to. "Speaking up" is fine and you'll change hearts and minds here and there. However the church is rife with those who don't care what you say and aren't listening, for various reasons. They must be made to listen.
In addition to "speaking up" we must do tangible things like hit them in the wallet and make they're dealings politically unsavory if we want change. If those in charge don't like what you have to say then your words will just bounce off them, unless of course those people are made to go away or forced to change.
I know that you're not opposed to us, that's why you're on our list! :)
If you think you miss that, you ought to try an SSPX mass. I know you're still "undecided" about churches but try one, especially if you enjoy the mass. Here's one near you:
DAVIE
Our Lady of Victory Church
954-792-3162
4590 SW 65th Avenue
Sunday 8:00am
Tue-Sat 7:45am
I'm going to FReepmail you my new phone.
BTW I thought you told me you weren't going to talk to me anymore?
Surely you know that sitetest is using the universal greeting present in every letter. He's being cordial.
You return his cordiality with bile.
Can we call you "surely"?
Being that both of you indicated you weren't going to ping me anymore, you each have an odd way of not doing something you don't intend to do.
Are you guys trying start a fan club? Maybe you can get together over a plate of pasta and discuss mailers or those neat little bobble head thingies with the club's phone #.
Just give at LEAST 10% to my the Society and put the URL to my traditional Catholic resources web site on all correspondence.
Would that include that post to me yesterday where it sounded as if you were typing with your toes due to the fact that you were in a straight jacket?
Look, I'm sure you're a very nice person but I'm really not interested at all in conversing with you on the subject of my morals or choice of worship. I've tried that and it was not a good experience and I didn't find you as nice as you hold yourself out to be. You've already indicated that you hold SSPX in "contempt".
You really don't have much to teach me, but thanks anyway. You can have the last word.... again.
OK, can you stop?
First, it isn't about your "choice of worship". If you were quietly assisting at the Masses of the schismatics, it would be one thing. But you are here proselytizing on their behalf.... Don't expect that actual Catholics are going to blithely overlook the falsehoods you assert....Second, you've posted an entire thread here, some of which appears to espouse things which are heretical for a Catholic...
This "heretic" will "quietly" stop proselytizing when shrimp start to whistle.
In fact I intend to turn the volume way, way up as those like you inspire me tremendously. I'll tell everyone else that a self declared real Catholic approves only of us "quietly assisting at masses". Now due to your words alone, we'll be the only church on earth that won't increase our fellowship. I guess we're not as worthy as the Anglicans and Protestants that the "infallible" Pope worships with while leaving us in the vestibule. Thanks for setting me straight.
I find your whole "I'm making all these accusations and condemnations because I care for you" gig beyond hilarious. I can't even be angry about it it's so transparent and absurd. What's worse is you may actually believe yourself.
Thank you for the conversation but are we done yet? Because I'm not interested in anything you have to teach me, disinfectants and all.
As requested, I've now officially asked you to go away.
Is that considered "substantive" or are we done now?
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