My extensive search for Jesus, and how I found Mel Gibson at the end of it.

Disclosure: A sinner who at times can be the worst possible messenger is the author of this thread. Please don’t let him get in the way of what is being witnessed and be sure to rebuke him should he be wrong.

Someone had asked “Why are you a Catholic?” or some such not to long ago. I'd like to take a few moments to answer that question, if I may.

During my life, I’ve been to nearly every type of service you could imagine and have looked at nearly every form of Christianity there is. I’ve been to tiny Baptist churches in rural Georgia as well as attending a service with Jerry Falwell presiding over thousands. I’ve been to many Lutheran services and have examined Lutheranism and Martin Luther extensively.

While serving in the military I attended all kinds of services. Although “Catholic” was on my dog-tags, when you’re sitting in the middle of the Saudi desert you’re lucky if you can even get your hands on a bible, much less get picky about what service is assembled in your AO. On Sundays, during basic training, I attended the Catholic masses and then would go straight to the Protestant services, just to get away from my drill Sergeants.

I’ve worshiped with Messianic Jews in their Temple, have examined 7th Day Advents and even thoroughly researched (and don’t hate me for this) the dreaded scientology.

My biggest problem with any of the non-Catholic religions is that they all, at some point or another wind up becoming an authority unto themselves. This is what has always my “dead-end”.

Whenever any given religion would have a particular doctrine, ethos, ritual, custom or practice that was particular to them and not based in scripture, I would always find myself asking, “by what authority do they do this?” I found comfort in the fact that while Rome is highly imperfect (one un-Catholic aspect of me is not believing in Papal infallibility) I could always rely on thousands of years of study, debate, divine inspiration and divine prophesy. Most the teachings and established doctrine of Catholicism come from extremely dedicated and brilliant scholars, sisters, clergy and even laypersons, with a few unexplainable miracles and revelations sprinkled in here and there.

Some will argue correctly that Jesus would be extremely saddened or even outraged at the condition of the church that He founded. Though with periods of exception it has been quite the impressive, if not divine authority.

That said, any of you, Catholic or not, who contend that our church is very sick right now will get no argument from me. I have no counter and would agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. There are some that are working to change that and if you’ll bear with this article there is more on that subject later.

Another reason why I stay Catholic is there is one aspect of the Catholic religion that I simply would not want to live without; That is the Holy Eucharist. Jesus states explicitly that through communion we will have everlasting life yet many other religions don’t bother with communion and some try to state that it’s not actually the body of Christ that we partake in at all, but only a representation. If you are of this belief, allow me to be the first to tell you that have some very vital information.

This may come as a shock, but communion really is the body of Christ. It is not a ritual, a representation or something that contains his “spirit”. It’s the actual body itself. There are at least three places in the Word where Christ tells us to do this in remembrance (Matthew 26:26, Mark 14:22, 1 Corinthians 11:24) of him, but there is at least one very important bit of scripture that some have chosen to ignore.

John 6 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.[/color]

This is one reason among many why I can never be anything but Catholic, the religion of my baptism. Even if other religions suddenly decided to take up the practice of Holy Communion, there is nobody more qualified than a priest to bless and give this sacrament. He is someone who has studied for years, given up everything including the possibility of having a family, to live without a home, in total poverty (as Christ did) just to simply serve our Lord. Nobody else (or very few) in my eyes has the authority to perform this very important rite. Many of my fellow Catholics would argue that this power was given directly to our priests from Peter himself, who received it from Christ.

This being said, I am sorry to report some bad news to my Catholic brethren. If your priest is a one of the enemy’s infiltrators that have penetrated our church or a God hating homosexual who is waking up with his boyfriend Sunday morning before putting his hands on your communion wafer, you are not receiving the body of Christ. Neither are your children. It saddens me to think that this is going on across the nation and the world but it most certainly is. Those who spit in God’s face are doing nothing more than pretending to give His children communion.

Which is on reason among many why I ran as fast as I could for traditional Catholicism (The Society of Saint Pius X or SSPX in my case). We don’t have these people amongst our clergy. We also treat the body of Christ as if it really is the body.

Additionally, our mass and the process of blessing the Eucharist is the most sacred, beautiful and reverent found. Our dedicated fathers speak in the ancient Latin tongue that many of the apostles spoke in our earliest years Nearly the entire devotional mass is dedicated to His body and sharing it amongst us. I haven’t been able to get through one without crying yet. I’ve received correspondence from people in tears describing incredible experiences. These are the masses that inspired Beethoven to write symphonies and some of the greatest works of art in history.

For some odd and inexplicable reason, certain evil forces in Rome (and on this forum) are trying to stomp us out. John Paul (for all of his faults, sins and fallibility) has not allowed this to happen. God will bless him for this. These masses will not “go away”, no matter how badly the enemy wants them to. The Lord is with us and there are some of us who will see to that, no matter what. Whether it means poverty, ridicule, ruin or even death, many of us have sold our garments and bought a sword (Luke 22:36), as Christ commanded on his last day on earth as a man.

Thank God our Lord and His incredible grace has sent us - everyone - a great ally, sword in hand just when we need him the most. A wonderful man (and fellow traditionalist) by the name of Mel Gibson is making a movie called “The Passion”. He is yet another artist who is creating a great work inspired by our very special form of worship, which he and the lead actor attended on regularly while filming.

Many of you are going to see this movie and never be the same. Our Lord will be speaking to you and I implore you with everything I have to listen when He speaks, for there is nothing better you can do for yourself, your children or the world than to listen to Him and let Him show you the way.

Please understand that while I and many other traditionalist Catholics can hardly contain our glee, this movie is for ALL PEOPLE- Christian, Catholic, Jewish and Atheist alike. Mel has made it very clear that this is for everyone and I do not want to leave the impression that the film belongs somehow to Catholics, traditionalists or even Christians. It doesn’t belong to us and neither does Jesus belong to anyone.

And yeah okay, I (like most others who attend worship) would like to help build our “flock”. So I suppose you'll just have to forgive the shameless plug. Attend one of our services and make up your own mind.

While we are just overjoyed to have Mel and feel this will help our cause and message tremendously, the most joyful of all is that it will further our Lord’s message for all. It just doesn’t get any better than that.

Lastly, I am not trying to “sell” you the Society or judge whatever form of religion you choose to partake in. I am only witnessing to you my first hand experience with Him. If any of what I have written is in err, I would like nothing more than to be rebuked or corrected. Whoever you are or wherever you come together in fellowship with God, I wish you and your family nothing but His blessings and pray that you and those you love share in His great Kingdom. Should any of you have any questions at all regarding this post, traditional Catholicism or the Society of Saint Pius X that you would rather not ask in public, please feel free to private message me.

In closing, I would like to borrow a line from my book “The Story of the Mass” (Newmann Press 1949, 2002):

… my Protestant compatriot, for you call Christ a Savior
… my Jewish brother, for your people gave us our Redeemer
… my fellow Catholic, for we are one in Christ

Read carefully, I said an SSPXer who did NOT recognize the Divine Authority granted to the Pope was outside of Traditional Catholicism.

Ah, I understand. Officially the society and almost all of us recognize his official authority, we're just forced to go "irregular" when he commands us to do something that is against our conscience.

It is painful. I have often left Mass with a broken heart because I see such mediocre progressives attempting to be "relevant" making a mockery of the Mass and the music and the liturgy.

But the command of obedience is not to be taken lightly...

Yes you're right about this. I love John Paul (even when he's stabbing me in the heart) and would do almost anything for him, except wrong. I won't do wrong for him.

Your broken heart indicates a man of our heart. Just so you know, you are not sinning or doing anything wrong if you were to attend an SSPX or trad mass. Nobody, within Rome or without would dare contend you were either, they know better. So you're safe if you want to bring your family to a mass.

I offer it up to God and I pray for restoration. I always speak up for a more traditional understanding of liturgy and catechesis when the opportunity presents itself.

I'm glad you pray for restoration as do I, because we "get it" and realize our church needs to be saved. Some here refuse to pray for unity, only for our downfall.

On a side note, for all it is, the church is also a political institution. I've had lots of dealing with such and I'm here to tell you political institutions don't change their ways unless they're forced to. "Speaking up" is fine and you'll change hearts and minds here and there. However the church is rife with those who don't care what you say and aren't listening, for various reasons. They must be made to listen.

In addition to "speaking up" we must do tangible things like hit them in the wallet and make they're dealings politically unsavory if we want change. If those in charge don't like what you have to say then your words will just bounce off them, unless of course those people are made to go away or forced to change.

I know that you're not opposed to us, that's why you're on our list! :)

I am unsure what JPII commanded that was against your conscience but I would say that protestants say the same thing.

The primacy of conscience is also not a traditionally Catholic idea; not to negate the importance of a well-formed conscience. I do have problems when the Church acts contrary to Scripture as it claims to be supportive of Scripture. Both Scripture and the Church hold to the importance of obedience.

Politics may function within the Church, but the Church is not, therefore, a political institution. My regard for things political is better understood in light of 1 Samuel chapter 8.

St. Francis was alive during a time of corruption and decay and God asked him to rebuild His Church. St. Francis took it at its most basic level and started to rebuild a local stone church that had fallen into disrepair. He later transcended his simple understanding of God's command to found a monastic order to help rebuild the universal Church.

I have an indult that is granted by my bishop about an hour away and plan on attending it when my children are old enough.

I believe that taking a political approach betrays a lack of faith in the Power of God. He raises up whom He will. He wants to use you, I am sure, but a proper sense of humility is what He requires.

Dear AAABEST,

"(one un-Catholic aspect of me is not believing in Papal infallibility)"

Do you realize that papal infallibility is a solemnly-defined doctrine of the Catholic Church, defined at the First Vatican Council, an Ecumenical Council of the Catholic Church, and confirmed by the Roman Pontiff?

Rejection of this binding doctrine is heresy, all Catholics are required to believe it, it is binding teaching.

Perhaps your understanding of this doctrine is incomplete, leading you to falsely reject it? There are plenty of folks here who could do a good job of explaining it to you.

Perhaps you're not quite fully aware that all Catholics are bound to accept this doctrine?

sitetest

Dear AAABEST,

The form I use is that of a letter. Many writers open their letters, "Dear So-and-So,"

I like the form, and thus I address everyone in this way. It reminds me that I'm commanded to love each person. Often, when I'm angry or upset by what someone is posted, just typing the word "Dear" reminds me to try not to respond in kind, out of anger or hurt. Sometimes, it even works.

Yes, I really mean "Dear", John. You are dear to me because you are dear to my Master. If it is He Who loves you, I would be afraid to hate you. So I do my best to love you. Which may be very poor, but I'm only sitetest, not God.

As to not posting to you, I'd said that if that were your preference, I would respect it, providing you didn't post to me, or mention me in posts. I also said I'd continue to post to refute things which you said falsely. As for myself, however, I have no wish to discontinue posting to you, nor you to me. We were talking about YOUR possible preference, not mine.

But this is the third time I've made the offer, and you haven't yet asked me to stop posting, so I'll continue.

However, even if that were the case, generally speaking, John, if you put up an entire thread, it's open for general comment.

Anyway, you evaded my questions.

Do you realize that the doctrine of papal infallibility is solemnly defined and binding on all Catholics?

Is it possible that you really don't understand the doctrine, and someone could explain it to you?

Is it possible that you didn't realize that Catholics are required to believe this doctrine?

sitetest

I've gone through my posting history and you two are 9 out of 50. Nearly 10%.

Being that both of you indicated you weren't going to ping me anymore, you each have an odd way of not doing something you don't intend to do.

Are you guys trying start a fan club? Maybe you can get together over a plate of pasta and discuss mailers or those neat little bobble head thingies with the club's phone #.

Just give at LEAST 10% to my the Society and put the URL to my traditional Catholic resources web site on all correspondence.

Dear AAABEST,

"Being that both of you indicated you weren't going to ping me anymore,..."

Did you read my last post to you? Or any of my other responses? I haven't said I don't want to ping you or be pinged by you.

I said, I wouldn't ping you IF you requested it, and IF you refrained from addressing or mentioning me in your posts.

You haven't yet asked me to stop, nor have you refrained from addressing me.

Further, as I pointed out, you've posted the thread, here. One generally may not restrict who might reply to an entire thread.

Finally, you're still evading my questions.

Do you realize that the doctrine of papal infallibility is solemnly defined and binding on all Catholics?

Is it possible that you really don't understand the doctrine, and someone could explain it to you?

Is it possible that you didn't realize that Catholics are required to believe this doctrine?

If you don't want to answer them, just say so. I know that it is possible that the questions trouble your conscience, that they cause you turmoil or grief.

By the way, 9 out of 50 is 18%, not "nearly 10%".

sitetest

I must have had you wrong all along. I really missed your good intentions in caring dearly about about me and everyone else in SSPX. All of your comments are out of caring and concern.

Would that include that post to me yesterday where it sounded as if you were typing with your toes due to the fact that you were in a straight jacket?

Look, I'm sure you're a very nice person but I'm really not interested at all in conversing with you on the subject of my morals or choice of worship. I've tried that and it was not a good experience and I didn't find you as nice as you hold yourself out to be. You've already indicated that you hold SSPX in "contempt".

You really don't have much to teach me, but thanks anyway. You can have the last word.... again.

Dear AAABEST,

"I must have had you wrong all along. I really missed your good intentions in caring dearly about about me and everyone else in SSPX. All of your comments are out of caring and concern."

Thanks, I'm glad you're finally beginning to see the truth about these things. ;-)

"Would that include that post to me yesterday where it sounded as if you were typing with your toes due to the fact that you were in a straight jacket?"

I'm not sure I know which one, as I had the straightjacket on most of the day. ;-)

If you're referring to the one where you denounced the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church, because they were presented by priests on EWTN, yes, indeed, all out of caring and concern. Though sometimes, the whoppers do give me a fit of the giggles.

"Look, I'm sure you're a very nice person but I'm really not interested at all in conversing with you on the subject of my morals or choice of worship."

First, it isn't about your "choice of worship". If you were quietly assisting at the Masses of the schismatics, it would be one thing. But you are here proselytizing on their behalf. It's not all about you.

Expect opposition from those who will not let falsehood go unchallenged. Don't expect that actual Catholics are going to blithely overlook the falsehoods you assert. If you can't take the heat...

Second, you've posted an entire thread here, some of which appears to espouse things which are heretical for a Catholic, especially one who styles himself "traditional".

Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, I wonder whether perhaps you don't appreciate the import of the things you're typing. You claim to be a traditional Catholic, but you assert things about yourself which negate the claim.

I don't think that anyone in the SSPX denies the doctrine of papal infallibility. Ask Fr. Karl if you don't believe me. Tell him that you reject papal infallibility, and see what he says. Even though I think that Fr. Karl is very misguided about what it means to obey the Roman Pontiff, I've never conversed with anyone associated with the SSPX who denies this solemnly-defined Catholic doctrine. Ask some of your friends here whom you know and trust.

"I've tried that and it was not a good experience..."

Sometimes when we are in error, hearing the truth can be an unpleasant experience. Like disinfectant in a wound.

"...and I didn't find you as nice as you hold yourself out to be."

I don't hold myself out to be nice. Never have, never will. But I try to post charitably. When I fail, it's just more evidence that I need God's grace.

"You've already indicated that you hold SSPX in 'contempt'."

But here, you've spoken falsely about me. I said to you that I hold schism in contempt. The SSPX preceded the schism brought about by Archbishop Lefebvre's outrageous act of disobedience. It was begun as a fraternity within the Catholic Church. I do not hold it in contempt. I hold in contempt the path of schism its leaders have chosen.

But should the Society renounce its schism, I would be glad of its return to its proper place in the Church of Jesus Christ.

It's a case of love the sinner, hate the sin.

sitetest

First, it isn't about your "choice of worship". If you were quietly assisting at the Masses of the schismatics, it would be one thing. But you are here proselytizing on their behalf.... Don't expect that actual Catholics are going to blithely overlook the falsehoods you assert....Second, you've posted an entire thread here, some of which appears to espouse things which are heretical for a Catholic...

This "heretic" will "quietly" stop proselytizing when shrimp start to whistle.

In fact I intend to turn the volume way, way up as those like you inspire me tremendously. I'll tell everyone else that a self declared real Catholic approves only of us "quietly assisting at masses". Now due to your words alone, we'll be the only church on earth that won't increase our fellowship. I guess we're not as worthy as the Anglicans and Protestants that the "infallible" Pope worships with while leaving us in the vestibule. Thanks for setting me straight.

I find your whole "I'm making all these accusations and condemnations because I care for you" gig beyond hilarious. I can't even be angry about it it's so transparent and absurd. What's worse is you may actually believe yourself.

Thank you for the conversation but are we done yet? Because I'm not interested in anything you have to teach me, disinfectants and all.

As requested, I've now officially asked you to go away.

Dear AAABEST,

If you insist on posting substantive replies to my comments, your request that I "go away" is disingenuous.

You've posted falsely about me, and I'm responding.

"I'll tell everyone else that a self declared real Catholic approves only of us 'quietly assisting at masses'."

If you're referring to me as the "self declared real Catholic", you've falsified my view, though it should scarcely matter. Unlike the Successor of Peter, I enjoy no infallibility. ;-)

But, no, I don't approve of you quietly assisting at the Masses of the schismatics. But if you are in error, and nonetheless leave others in peace, committing your error quietly, it seems reasonable to leave you in peace.

But you commit your error, call that which is evil good, and proclaim it loudly, trying to persuade others to join you in it. Yet, you are so upset that any would resist your falsehoods and your blandishments.

It's really very amusing. You reserve to yourself the right to proselytize on behalf of your new-found false beliefs. You go around telling all of us, that you are going to boldly work on behalf of the SSPX. You assert things about Catholic faith, claiming them to be true. When others object, and show how you're wrong, you're quite offended!! We who disagree with you have no right to contradict you!!

* chuckle *

Now we know why you don't believe the pope is infallible. He's usurping YOUR authority!!! LOL. (That's a joke, John, take it in good spirit.)

If you're going to loudly proclaim falsehood, expect opposition.

"I find your whole 'I'm making all these accusations and condemnations because I care for you' gig beyond hilarious."

I'm glad to have entertained you. Perhaps I'm good for something. ;-)

"I can't even be angry about it it's so transparent and absurd."

I appreciate your indulgence, that you're not angry. But I note that while you characterize the intent and effect of what I've said, you haven't actually bothered to address the substance.

"What's worse is you may actually believe yourself."

Indeed, I do.

"Thank you for the conversation but are we done yet?"

We will be done with direct conversation when you no longer post to me substantively.

"Because I'm not interested in anything you have to teach me, disinfectants and all."

I didn't think you were.

"As requested, I've now officially asked you to go away."

No one is forcing you to continue the conversation, John.

sitetest

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