My extensive search for Jesus, and how I found Mel Gibson at the end of it.

Disclosure: A sinner who at times can be the worst possible messenger is the author of this thread. Please don’t let him get in the way of what is being witnessed and be sure to rebuke him should he be wrong.

Someone had asked “Why are you a Catholic?” or some such not to long ago. I'd like to take a few moments to answer that question, if I may.

During my life, I’ve been to nearly every type of service you could imagine and have looked at nearly every form of Christianity there is. I’ve been to tiny Baptist churches in rural Georgia as well as attending a service with Jerry Falwell presiding over thousands. I’ve been to many Lutheran services and have examined Lutheranism and Martin Luther extensively.

While serving in the military I attended all kinds of services. Although “Catholic” was on my dog-tags, when you’re sitting in the middle of the Saudi desert you’re lucky if you can even get your hands on a bible, much less get picky about what service is assembled in your AO. On Sundays, during basic training, I attended the Catholic masses and then would go straight to the Protestant services, just to get away from my drill Sergeants.

I’ve worshiped with Messianic Jews in their Temple, have examined 7th Day Advents and even thoroughly researched (and don’t hate me for this) the dreaded scientology.

My biggest problem with any of the non-Catholic religions is that they all, at some point or another wind up becoming an authority unto themselves. This is what has always my “dead-end”.

Whenever any given religion would have a particular doctrine, ethos, ritual, custom or practice that was particular to them and not based in scripture, I would always find myself asking, “by what authority do they do this?” I found comfort in the fact that while Rome is highly imperfect (one un-Catholic aspect of me is not believing in Papal infallibility) I could always rely on thousands of years of study, debate, divine inspiration and divine prophesy. Most the teachings and established doctrine of Catholicism come from extremely dedicated and brilliant scholars, sisters, clergy and even laypersons, with a few unexplainable miracles and revelations sprinkled in here and there.

Some will argue correctly that Jesus would be extremely saddened or even outraged at the condition of the church that He founded. Though with periods of exception it has been quite the impressive, if not divine authority.

That said, any of you, Catholic or not, who contend that our church is very sick right now will get no argument from me. I have no counter and would agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. There are some that are working to change that and if you’ll bear with this article there is more on that subject later.

Another reason why I stay Catholic is there is one aspect of the Catholic religion that I simply would not want to live without; That is the Holy Eucharist. Jesus states explicitly that through communion we will have everlasting life yet many other religions don’t bother with communion and some try to state that it’s not actually the body of Christ that we partake in at all, but only a representation. If you are of this belief, allow me to be the first to tell you that have some very vital information.

This may come as a shock, but communion really is the body of Christ. It is not a ritual, a representation or something that contains his “spirit”. It’s the actual body itself. There are at least three places in the Word where Christ tells us to do this in remembrance (Matthew 26:26, Mark 14:22, 1 Corinthians 11:24) of him, but there is at least one very important bit of scripture that some have chosen to ignore.

John 6 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.[/color]

This is one reason among many why I can never be anything but Catholic, the religion of my baptism. Even if other religions suddenly decided to take up the practice of Holy Communion, there is nobody more qualified than a priest to bless and give this sacrament. He is someone who has studied for years, given up everything including the possibility of having a family, to live without a home, in total poverty (as Christ did) just to simply serve our Lord. Nobody else (or very few) in my eyes has the authority to perform this very important rite. Many of my fellow Catholics would argue that this power was given directly to our priests from Peter himself, who received it from Christ.

This being said, I am sorry to report some bad news to my Catholic brethren. If your priest is a one of the enemy’s infiltrators that have penetrated our church or a God hating homosexual who is waking up with his boyfriend Sunday morning before putting his hands on your communion wafer, you are not receiving the body of Christ. Neither are your children. It saddens me to think that this is going on across the nation and the world but it most certainly is. Those who spit in God’s face are doing nothing more than pretending to give His children communion.

Which is on reason among many why I ran as fast as I could for traditional Catholicism (The Society of Saint Pius X or SSPX in my case). We don’t have these people amongst our clergy. We also treat the body of Christ as if it really is the body.

Additionally, our mass and the process of blessing the Eucharist is the most sacred, beautiful and reverent found. Our dedicated fathers speak in the ancient Latin tongue that many of the apostles spoke in our earliest years Nearly the entire devotional mass is dedicated to His body and sharing it amongst us. I haven’t been able to get through one without crying yet. I’ve received correspondence from people in tears describing incredible experiences. These are the masses that inspired Beethoven to write symphonies and some of the greatest works of art in history.

For some odd and inexplicable reason, certain evil forces in Rome (and on this forum) are trying to stomp us out. John Paul (for all of his faults, sins and fallibility) has not allowed this to happen. God will bless him for this. These masses will not “go away”, no matter how badly the enemy wants them to. The Lord is with us and there are some of us who will see to that, no matter what. Whether it means poverty, ridicule, ruin or even death, many of us have sold our garments and bought a sword (Luke 22:36), as Christ commanded on his last day on earth as a man.

Thank God our Lord and His incredible grace has sent us - everyone - a great ally, sword in hand just when we need him the most. A wonderful man (and fellow traditionalist) by the name of Mel Gibson is making a movie called “The Passion”. He is yet another artist who is creating a great work inspired by our very special form of worship, which he and the lead actor attended on regularly while filming.

Many of you are going to see this movie and never be the same. Our Lord will be speaking to you and I implore you with everything I have to listen when He speaks, for there is nothing better you can do for yourself, your children or the world than to listen to Him and let Him show you the way.

Please understand that while I and many other traditionalist Catholics can hardly contain our glee, this movie is for ALL PEOPLE- Christian, Catholic, Jewish and Atheist alike. Mel has made it very clear that this is for everyone and I do not want to leave the impression that the film belongs somehow to Catholics, traditionalists or even Christians. It doesn’t belong to us and neither does Jesus belong to anyone.

And yeah okay, I (like most others who attend worship) would like to help build our “flock”. So I suppose you'll just have to forgive the shameless plug. Attend one of our services and make up your own mind.

While we are just overjoyed to have Mel and feel this will help our cause and message tremendously, the most joyful of all is that it will further our Lord’s message for all. It just doesn’t get any better than that.

Lastly, I am not trying to “sell” you the Society or judge whatever form of religion you choose to partake in. I am only witnessing to you my first hand experience with Him. If any of what I have written is in err, I would like nothing more than to be rebuked or corrected. Whoever you are or wherever you come together in fellowship with God, I wish you and your family nothing but His blessings and pray that you and those you love share in His great Kingdom. Should any of you have any questions at all regarding this post, traditional Catholicism or the Society of Saint Pius X that you would rather not ask in public, please feel free to private message me.

In closing, I would like to borrow a line from my book “The Story of the Mass” (Newmann Press 1949, 2002):

… my Protestant compatriot, for you call Christ a Savior
… my Jewish brother, for your people gave us our Redeemer
… my fellow Catholic, for we are one in Christ

Thank you. I missed that one. Donatism which is heresy and recognized as such for many centuries as well as rejection of papal infallibility.

No wonder we must reference schism as his game.

Good thing we are not New Agers or we might see a reincarnational link between Donatus of casae Nigrae and Marcel of modern day Gaul (and gall).

SWSPX is a schism. JP II said so. His is the definitive word.

I realize that you are in Florida but what makes you think that child molestors are not being defrocked. Lavender queens have no business in the priesthood, child molestors or otherwise. The molestors have every business being defrocked and imprisoned for as long as possible. Likewise the coverup artist bishops.

Your "bad news" is the Donatist heresy. It was rejected by the Church -- the Catholic Church, that is -- back around the time Rome fell to the Goths.

If a priest is validly ordained and says the right words over valid Eucharistic matter and has at least the habitual intention to confect the Eucharist, he confects the Eucharist.

Why? Because the Sacrament does not depend on the righteousness of the human minister, but on the righteousness of the Savior. You are receiving, not the body of Fr. Murphy, but the Body of Christ. So it doesn't matter, from the POV of the validity of the Sacrament, whether Fr. Murphy slept with Steve, Eve, or a well-thumbed copy of the Vulgate Bible last night. Of course, as to the eternal destiny of Fr. Murphy's soul, that's an entirely different matter ...

right intent. The first two are easily determined. It is the third which is difficult if not impossible to know.

Theologians, orthodox ones, say that the intent required is the habitual intent to say Mass. Nothing more. You'll find that taught clearly prior to Vatican II, I believe. If the priest intends to say Mass, even if he's tired and not really thinking about it much, he has habitual intent.

IIRC, there used to be a rule where priests in a state of mortal sin incurred another mortal sin if they offered Mass in that state. I think that belief went out after VII.

Nope. Of course, an allowance might be made if a priest has to offer Mass for his people and is unable to get to Confession in time, but otherwise, not. Receiving the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin is the sin of sacrilege. Saying Mass implies that the priest must receive the Eucharist. QED.

Actually, what I have read states due to the structure of the Old Mass it was nearly impossible not to have proper intent. Not so with the Novus Ordo which allegedly places more burden on priests' intent for reasons I have not yet been able to define. I am not speaking of fatigue but rather belief and intent to do what the Church does.

I don't see where we disagree on this point.

LOL sara. It's good to see you, I was thinking about you earlier today. I was feeling a bad that I've been so hard on you in the past. I won't in the future because after getting to know you better you share many of my views and see that you're a good person. I'm sorry I didn't trust you.

B.E. and I are glad to provide you the fun. I have a lot of respect for him (he's one of the most well written guys on the forum) and enjoy his mind when he does't get to "upitty".

If anyone is curious as to what's going on with BE and I, go to this post #60.

I can only pray that your infatuation, like most infatuations, doesn't leave you seriously disappointed.

Your jihad in favor of the SSPX, and against the Latin Rite in union with John Paul II, has been a manifestation of emotionalism the likes of which I've not seen in a long time on the religion forum.

I admire your ardor, but your despicable pant-wetting anger at John Paul II should be beneath a man of your age and background.

BTW, a priest who utters the words of consecration, within the context of the Mass, DOES validly confect the Holy Eucharist. To maintain that a priest's personal disposition is dispositive of the consecration is contrary to the Faith, as is your "un-Catholic" denial of Papal infallibility.

As I said on another thread, I hope that when your head has stopped spinning around, that your face is to the front again.

The Novus Ordo in some locations is celbrated in Latin, with the priest facing the altar. Try www.stagnes.net

and while the mass in my parish is mostly celebrated in English, the rubrucs are largely Triditional, with use of the rail, incense, etc. Here is a pic of the parish I belong to Altar.

http://www.stpatrickcolumbus.com/StPathome/images/StPatsDedication/5xeDSCF0108.jpg

That is the situation as far as the laity is concerned, "illregular". The laity save for the handful of SSPX 3rd order members are not part of the schism, and the SSPX priests pray for John Paul II and the local ordinary in every mass. That said, the priests and laity who attend SSPX chapels range from being de facto Sedes to "morderates" who attend a SSPX chapel because there are no reverent alternatives avilable.

In my albiet quite limited onbservations, in communities that have convinent Indult masses or even quasi traditional Novus Ordo alternatives avilable, the SSPX tends to be more on the radical end as there is less of a moderate element there and it becomes dangerous territory to tread in.

Great story, bro. I almost could have written it myself. (You have freepmail.)

The private chapel I attend is considered "independent". I'll be attending my first SSPX Mass on St. Valentine's day in Cincinnati. My good friend's daughter is getting married there. I'm really looking forward to it, as I've never been to a Traditional wedding yet, either. If I'm ever in Fla., I'll make it a point to visit your Church.

"The clergy in SSPX is in schism, per the 1988 Vatican decree. The people who attend the chapels are in a 'irregular situation.'"

There was no decree of excommunication by JPII. This is a common misapprehension. There was a letter. In it the Pope stated the SSPX had been excommunicated by way of a latae sententiae penalty. But such automatic excommunications are incurred only for reasons of culpability or malice. Canon Law itself--which is the Pope's own law, remember--provides many exceptions--which were evoked legally and justifiably by Archbishop Lefebvre. The Pope made no mention of this in his letter--but he should have since, if the Archbishop had indeed acted out of good conscience, no penalty had ever been incurred. Bottom line: the Pope misspoke.

Thanks for bringing me up to date John. About the only thing I miss about the Catholic Church is the ceremony of the Mass. Unfortunately theres not much else I miss. On the plus side our Presbyterian Church offers the Apostles Creed and we to pray for the one Catholic Apostlitic Church. (Catholic: Universal)

On the negative side one of the Priests from my Parents Catholic Church just retired unexpectedly and was shipped off to the Catholic Retirement Home; the place they ship them off to when accusations arise from twenty years past.
On the Plus side vandals don’t discriminate between Catholics and Presbyterians Both the Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church were vandalized with graffiti last Saturday night.

I too would vehemently disagree with the statement that SSPXers are not traditionalists.

Read carefully, I said an SSPXer who did NOT recognize the Divine Authority granted to the Pope was outside of Traditional Catholicism.

I understand why some would attend a SSPX Mass and I know that there are a great many that yearn for normal relations with the Roman Catholic Church as well as a restoration of the Traditional Liturgy, I am one.

But the command of obedience is not to be taken lightly, we are being tempted most seriously in this regard. It is painful. I have often left Mass with a broken heart because I see such mediocre progressives attempting to be "relevant" making a mockery of the Mass and the music and the liturgy.

I offer it up to God and I pray for restoration. I always speak up for a more traditional understanding of liturgy and catechesis when the opportunity presents itself.

I am not your enemy by a long shot.

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