Archdiocese has active, engaged laity (Archbishop Burke article)

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | January 25, 2004 | Patricia Rice

[Desdemona]

More lay persons lead archdiocesan departments, agencies and schools than ever before, while the number of diocesan priests is the lowest in more than a century.

This year, members of the archdiocese face the consolidation or closure of more parishes, especially those in south St. Louis and northeast St. Louis County.

[Desdemona]

ping

Just a little taste of what our local daily paper dishes out.

Incidentally, the picture that was in the paper this morning was NOT the one posted on the website.

[Salvation]

**Another 25 percent of all baptized Catholic children who attend secular schools are enrolled in weekly religion courses at their parishes.**

This is a good percentage. We would all being jumping and joyously celebrating if we got 1/4 of our parishes to participate!

BTW, I just realized that maybe my parish is among that!

We are a 600 family parish and we regularly have turnouts of 200-250 people for some events. And we hope to improve that. That number even holds true for our small faith sharing groups for Lent last year -- we had nearly 400 individuals!

Wow!

[RFT1]

Of course the article does not mention the St Louis Archdiocese ordained 8 men to the priesthood last year and has been fairly sucessful in recruitment. Of course with Abp. elect Burke, that situation will only get better.

[sinkspur]

Of course the article does not mention the St Louis Archdiocese ordained 8 men to the priesthood last year and has been fairly sucessful in recruitment. Of course with Abp. elect Burke, that situation will only get better.

But, like many dioceses around the country, there will not be enough to avoid closing parishes and instituting the Vatican-approved Rite for Sunday Eucharistic Service in the Absence of a Priest, at least for a time.

I vaguely recall Desdemona saying that St. Louis was not vigorously recruiting permanent deacons. A big mistake.

[sinkspur]

"What the archdiocese needs at this moment is a shepherd who will listen to the clergy and laity and take advice," said the Rev. William Barnaby Faherty, archdiocesan historian and author. "We need a man with the warm pastoral ways of the first Bishop Joseph Rosati and Archbishop May."

Ouch.

Kinda of a kick in the head to Rigali.

[RFT1]

Many parishes that are being closed have had the number of parishoners in declined for decades. Where I am in the Midwest, there are several inner city parishes in the diocese I live in that are down to two weekend masses(one on Satdurday Afternoon and one on Sunday morning) that may have a toltal of 150-200 parishoners, and take in a weekly collection of $2000 or even $1000, these parishes can no longer sustain themselves.

Many of these parishes are remnants of the old "Ethnic" communities such as Irish, Germans, French and Poles etc, in areas that are now mostly non Catholics because of demographic changes, some of these parishes sustain themselves by being havens for liturgical refugees from the suburban parishes.

[RFT1]

My guess is a "Sprit of Vatican II" priest. In any event, the "Pastoral" Abp. Jadot Bishops are coming to a end, these "Sprit of Vatican II" priests and self appointed laity are going to have to deal with that fact.

[sinkspur]

My guess is a "Sprit of Vatican II" priest.

Rigali is a firm adherent to Vatican II, but I was surprised that he would not be considered pastoral or one who would listen to laity input.

In any event, the "Pastoral" Abp. Jadot Bishops are coming to a end, these "Sprit of Vatican II" priests and self appointed laity are going to have to deal with that fact.

The laity are not self-appointed; they've been given these roles in the Church, or taken them when priests neglected a ministry.

And you're dreaming if you don't think laymen are going to continue to demand that bishops and priests be accountable for what they do.

[Land of the Irish]

Rigali is a firm adherent to Vatican II,

Strike One!

[RFT1]

Of course laymen should account for the priests and Bishops to be ethical, and as a layman, I will expect the clergy to firmly adhere to church teachings. The biggest irony, if the clergy held to church teachings, there would have been no scandals.

As for Cardinal Rigali, he is faithful to Vatican II, but faithful to what the documents actually said, not to the "Sprit of Vatican II" that bishops such as Abp. Weakland held to.

[Desdemona]

Rigali is a firm adherent to Vatican II, but I was surprised that he would not be considered pastoral or one who would listen to laity input.

I'm not. This is something a lot of people complain about with Rigali. It wasn't true, but then he was WAY more conservative than May was. May was a hero around here.

[sinkspur]

May was a hero around here.

Well, unless one believes that laymen are just totally gullible and stupid (which, according the article, St. Louis laymen are not), May had a pastoral style that Rigali did not. The way one relates to people has nothing to do with "conservatism."

Rigali was a Vatican bureaucrat for so long he apparently can't relate to average Catholics any longer.

[RobbyS]

The average Catholic being someone who does not believe in the real presence?

[sinkspur]

The average Catholic being someone who does not believe in the real presence?

Who's an "average" Catholic? Most Catholics believe in the Real Presence. Please don't use that phony Gallup phone poll as your evidence that most Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence.

[RobbyS]

OK, who IS the average Catholic? Maybe NOT someone like you, Sinky.

[saradippity]

This article seems to be quite transparent in the message they want to give out.Do you have any thoughts about the priests they did interview?I would bet they are somewhat dissident,or at least not orthodox.

I would also guess the majority of the interviewees are lets gather round the table and eat at the banquet and then go out and mix and mingle with the world on the world's terms kind of Catholics.

I like the effort to bury anything but spirit of vatII bishops,no mention is made of at least 20 years worth of bishops,only Ritter and May make it through their process.Did you not receive your catechesis under the reign of May? If I remember correctly you haave had to educate yourself,pretty much. If I am right then this pride in having such a high per centage of Catholic school educated church members,is not anything that augers well for the Church.

On the other hand,you see a lot of good things happening,am I correct? I value your assessment of the diocese so much more than that propaganda piece.

[dsc]

"social justice organizations"

Red flag! Red flag! Bong, bong, bong, bong...

[old and tired]

Rigali is a firm adherent to Vatican II, but I was surprised that he would not be considered pastoral or one who would listen to laity input.

A couple of years ago, the Pro-lfe movement in Philly began making a connection between a lack of chastity, contraception, and abortion.

Bevilacqua met with pro-lifers once in 1999 and he refused to meet with them again - on the election, on contraception, on teen chastity awareness, on anything.

Recently, Rigali, who knew of their history with Bevilacqua, agreed to meet with them. These folks have reported that although Rigali is not the warmest of leaders, he was keenly interested in what they had to say, seemed very knowledgable on the issues, and absolutely knows the resistance we are up against.

Although this all seems very pastoral to me, two things still leave me a little scared of Rigali. Upon his installation, there was a piece in the Catholic Standard about his "close friendship with Cardianal Mahoney". The other thing that scares me is he has refused to say homosexuals are unfit for the priesthood, and I'm afraid he will lift the ban from St. Charles Seminary.

[Desdemona]

Rigali, doesn't relate well to AMERICANS. He does loosen up. It just takes a little time.

May was out in the community all the time and that resonnated.