Posted on 12/21/2003 4:41:40 AM PST by Pharmboy
Jewish group says it is considering legal action in an effort to stop the Mormon Church from posthumously baptizing many Jews, especially Holocaust victims.
Under the practice, known by Mormons as vicarious baptism — a significant rite of the church — the dead are baptized by living church members who stand in as proxies.
But in 1995, after evidence emerged that at least 380,000 names of Jewish Holocaust victims were on baptismal lists in the church's extensive archives in Salt Lake City, the church agreed to end vicarious baptism without consent from the descendants of the dead. Church officials also said the church would remove the names of Holocaust victims placed on the lists before 1995.
"For the last seven years, we've had entirely cordial relations with the Mormons," said Ernest Michel, who negotiated the agreement on behalf of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, which is based in New York and claims 180,000 members. "But the agreement is clear and they have not held up their end."
Last year, Helen Radkey, an independent researcher in Salt Lake City, gave Mr. Michel evidence that the Mormon lists still included the names of at least 20,000 Jews, many of them Holocaust victims and prominent figures like the philosopher Theodor Herzl and David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel. Ms. Radkey also provided Mr. Michel with evidence that many of these Jews had been baptized after the 1995 agreement.
But Mormon officials say they remain in full compliance with the 1995 agreement.
"We have actually gone above and beyond," said D. Todd Christofferson, a church official involved with the negotiations. The church removed the names of Holocaust victims listed before 1995 and continues to instruct its members to avoid baptizing Jews who are not directly related to living Mormons or whose immediate family has not given written consent, Mr. Christofferson said.
But he said it was not the church's responsibility to monitor the archives to ensure that no new Jewish names appear. "We never had in mind that we would, on a continual basis, go in and ferret out the Jewish names," Mr. Christofferson said, adding that the labor involved in constantly sifting through an ever-expanding archive, which contains more than 400 million names, would represent an "intolerable burden."
"When the church is made aware of documented concerns, action is taken in compliance with the agreement," he said.
Some Jewish genealogists agree with the Mormon interpretation of the agreement. "I have a copy of the agreement," said Gary Mokotoff, the publisher of Avotaynu, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy. "The wording is vague in some places, but it definitely does not obligate the Mormons to scour their own archives on an ongoing basis."
But Mr. Michel, who said he became involved in the issue after reading about posthumous baptisms in the Jewish newspaper The Forward, contends that the agreement obliges the Mormon Church to monitor the post-1995 lists and remove the names of Jews that appear.
"They put the names in there, they should have to take them out, and the agreement says as much," he said. "Why should we have to do their job for them?" He said the group was considering legal action but would not provide details.
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, whom Mr. Michel contacted, said she planned to take up the matter with Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, a Republican and a Mormon. "Senator Hatch was immensely helpful in brokering the 1995 agreement, so we're hoping he can get involved again now," she said in a telephone interview.
With approximately 11 million members worldwide, the Mormon Church, known formally as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is one of the fastest-growing in the world, partly because of a strong missionary effort. The importance of the family structure is central to church doctrine and is a reason for the extensive archives kept by the International Genealogical Index in Salt Lake City. The archives include detailed biographical information of 400 million people going back centuries. The names of those to be posthumously baptized are drawn from the archives.
According to Mormon theology, all people, living or dead, possess "free agency," and posthumous baptisms provide only an option, not an obligation, to join the religion in the afterlife. Church membership numbers do not include those baptized after death, Mr. Christofferson said.
Originally, the practice was reserved for ancestors of church members, but over the years many other people have been baptized posthumously. "There is no way to prevent overzealous members doing mission work from submitting names that don't belong," Mr. Christofferson said.
Ms. Radkey, an Australian-born Christian, said she began researching the Mormon practice in 1999 after discovering that the teenage diarist Anne Frank had been posthumously baptized.
Since there was the word, "Fault" in this thread, I firstly thought it might just be about; "Magnitude 6.5 Quake near San Simeon".
Oye Vey.
Religion is a faith based belief system. We can argue all day about whether a particular religion is true or not but it won't change what people believe.
Now, let's pretend that you truly believe in Religion X.
Now, work with me here. Let's pretend that you really believe this religion. You really do.
In that Religion X, you truly believe that an individual's soul would not be saved unless some ceremony was performed.
Let's say that I died and you truly believed that you would save my immortal soul for all Eternity if only you performed this ceremony in the privacy of your own Church, Temple, Altar, whatever.
My wife says that she does not want it done.
Would you really decide to prevent my immortal soul from being saved for all Eternity because of what my wife thinks?
Choose one answer below:
A. Save Polybius' immortal soul but anger his wife.
B. Deprive Polybius' immortal soul of a chance for Eternal Salvation but keep his wife from getting angry.
Really? Do Christian worship the same God as the muslims and mormons?
Yes, we are judged sometime after death as Hebrews states. And we hope to assist some people to be written in the book of life who lacked or rejected the opportunity during their mortal life.
2. WHEN THE WICKED DIE THERE IS NO HOPE. Hope of the unjust perish Pro 11:7 No work, knowledge in the grave Ecc 9:10
What a depressing and untrue doctrine. And what of those who are not "wicked" but who had no opportunity to be taught the truth and given the chance to be baptised in this life? Do you condemn them to Hell? The innocent children will spend eternity in torment because no one sprinkled any water on them and mumbled a few words in Latin!? Ewwww...
3. NO ONE CAN REDEEM HIS BROTHER. Nor give to God ransom for him Psa 49:7, 8 If they hear not and the prophets Luk 16:26-31
You're right. However, through the restored Gospel you can be baptised by proxy for your dead brother that he might be redeemed. The baptism is not the redeeming act, it is only one of the necessary prerequisites.
4. MAN CANNOT BE SAVED BY HIS OWN GOOD WORKS OR GOOD WORKS OF OTHERS. Faith, not good works. Romans 4:5 Gift of God, not of works Romans 4:5 Work of God, belief in Jesus Jhn 6:28, 29
James 2:26:
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
You don't really have faith unless you can exercise it. You can say you have faith, but your actions will prove whether you do actually have faith and how much faith you have.
Ridiculous and idiotic! Tell me how many buildings we've blown up, suicide bombings we've engaged in, etc.
No, instead you will see millions of acts of selfless service. How utterly evil...
Isaiah 5:
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked• for reward, and take• away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble•, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root• shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Untrue. If someone is proved to be practicing polygamy they are immediately excommunicated. Make up all the silly stories you want about it, but that is the plain truth.
I think your comment was aimed at someone else. Please review posts.
Untrue on the first part. True on the second part.
We can only be saved through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. It is by His grace that we are saved.
We can perform all of the works we want, to show our faith, but without Christ's grace it would be in vain.
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