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Again, Jews Fault Mormons Over Posthumous Baptisms
NY Times ^
| December 21, 2003
| IAN URBINA
Posted on 12/21/2003 4:41:40 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: redhead
It is--as someone above has said--the effect on the living that is the problem. It is presumptuous and obnoxious--in my opinion--to manipulate the memory of the deceased for anything that they would not have wanted when alive. I just don't buy it.
21
posted on
12/21/2003 7:04:20 AM PST
by
Pharmboy
(History's greatest agent for democracy: The US Armed Forces)
To: Pharmboy; formercalifornian
Let's say that you're a religious Methodist, and some rabbi comes along and says that he now converted a dead relative of yours to Judaism: is that ok with you?
I'd have to laugh at him, because THEY'RE DEAD AND THEY DON'T CARE.
22
posted on
12/21/2003 7:12:22 AM PST
by
Xenalyte
(I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I'll defend to the death your right to stick it)
To: Pharmboy
Nope.
23
posted on
12/21/2003 7:16:58 AM PST
by
ItisaReligionofPeace
(I'm from the government and I'm here to help.)
To: Pharmboy
Mormons hit a new low... desecration of the dead.
For shame! I thought these were good people despite the fact that their sect is based on an obvious fraud.
24
posted on
12/21/2003 7:17:16 AM PST
by
thoughtomator
(The Federal judiciary is a terrorist organization)
To: szweig
"Wotta waste of time!!"
Actually for them it isn't. If I'm not mistaken, putting not so strong mormons into their levels of heaven will allow some of the borderline mormons to move up in the levels. The highest level, I'm told, gets to have children, and the souls of these children return to the earthly form and can propagate the church. Kind of like baptizing to create a second string so the first string can be more productive to the church. The old adage, "it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it."
Merry Christmas
Red
To: Redwood71
I read a book by an ex-mormon, that purports that there are only so many 'souls' available. They want as many to be mormon, as possible. they also believe that our God was part of a group of gods, that got together and decided to send Him to tend to this little part of the universe... That the angel, Moroni, gave some golden tablets, that were only visible to J. Smith...
the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only 144,000 will be in heaven. It is interesting to note that every one that I talk with, is one of the 144K!
I w'ont get into what the Roman church believes. I hope there are RC's who believe in something besides membership, and confessions!
Nice people can be well-intentioed, and socially acceptable. They can also end up in Hell!
26
posted on
12/21/2003 7:36:07 AM PST
by
pageonetoo
(Arguing for Liberty, since I came to Free Republic. Still taunting (Police) Statists!)
To: RaceBannon
Mormons have been baptised for the dead for about a century now, this is not new news.
I'll bet the Scientologeezers are pissed that the Mormons beat 'em to the draw on this freeky farce... but then again, I don't think Mormons use a phony lie detector to extract info from their members the way L.Ron's gang does !!! ;-))
.
27
posted on
12/21/2003 7:39:35 AM PST
by
GeekDejure
( LOL = Liberals Obey Lucifer !!!)
To: Pharmboy
"It is--as someone above has said--the effect on the living that is the problem. It is presumptuous and obnoxious--in my opinion--to manipulate the memory of the deceased for anything that they would not have wanted when alive. I just don't buy it."Yes, you are correct. I guess I was thinking of the "effect" on the souls of the deceased. But the survivors must be not just brokenhearted but infuriated when they hear of this kind of presumptuous nonsense. Just one more reason why I left...
28
posted on
12/21/2003 7:40:50 AM PST
by
redhead
(Les Français sont des singes de capitulation qui mangent du fromage.)
To: Xenalyte
But the LIVING care about their deceased parents, children, grandparents, etc. I don't think that's laughable.
29
posted on
12/21/2003 8:50:27 AM PST
by
Pharmboy
(History's greatest agent for democracy: The US Armed Forces)
To: anniegetyourgun
Mormons do not care what is biblical and what is not. What they do does not bother me. Let them baptise names if they want, so far as I am concerned, for it means nothing at all.
30
posted on
12/21/2003 9:13:07 AM PST
by
tessalu
To: thoughtomator
Mormons hit a new low... desecration of the dead. What, do you think they are robbing graves and dunking the bodies in holy water?
They are just praying for them and performing a ritual on their behalf. It may be stupid but its no different from the Catholic ritual of praying for the dead, which I think is stupid too. But would you consider that the Catholics are desecrating the dead by praying for them?
31
posted on
12/21/2003 9:27:41 AM PST
by
P-Marlowe
(LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
To: P-Marlowe
They are basically doing just that, symbolically.
32
posted on
12/21/2003 9:32:01 AM PST
by
thoughtomator
(The Federal judiciary is a terrorist organization)
To: thoughtomator
Then rail against the Catholics. There's a whole slew of Catholic threads over in the Religion Forum. Go tell them that they desecrate the dead. They'll probably put you on a list to be prayed for after they kill you.
Hey, how about the Hindus? They believe that the dead are their pets and the feed them and pet them. You got a problem with that?
And how about Spiritualists? They wake up the dead and drag them into dark rooms with crystal balls and chanting. What could be more disturbing to a dead guy that to be brought out of the comforts of the spirit world and dragged into a darkened room full of whack-jobs?
33
posted on
12/21/2003 9:41:42 AM PST
by
P-Marlowe
(LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
To: Pharmboy
Seems like some morbid preoccupation with blood over values, to me.
34
posted on
12/21/2003 9:41:53 AM PST
by
onedoug
To: Saundra Duffy
Most of the Jews complaining are liberal, gastronomic Jews. If people don;t hold by the LDS faith, then these "baprisms" should have no meaning. Perhaps the Jewish individuals complainibg should focus their attentions on the sand nazis who would exterminate them. Bringing in Eva Rodham Braun into this is evident of a thought disorder!
To: P-Marlowe
If they do that for their own co-spiritualists, I would consider it no more than a morbid custom. But when they single out Jews for this treatment, that constitutes an aggressive attack on another community.
Considering that everybody who believes in God will need to stick together in the battle against the secularists, what they are doing is just plain stupid.
36
posted on
12/21/2003 9:43:58 AM PST
by
thoughtomator
(The Federal judiciary is a terrorist organization)
To: Pharmboy
This is a new one on me...sounds pretty aggressive on the LDS' part. Leave people alone...even after they're dead, IMO. This has been a part of Mormon religious practice for quite a while and that is why the LDS puts so much time and money into collecting geneological data from around the world.
There is absolutely nothing in it for the Mormons other than believing that they are helping a total stranger that died long ago to get into Heaven.
If you don't believe in Mormonism, and I don't, it can't possibly hurt your ancestors any more than the Pope blessing America can hurt a Southern Baptist. If you want to research your geneology, the Mormons have already done a lot of work for you.
The practice is of as purely religious nature as it can be. As such, it is fully protected by the First Amendment and this lawsuit will get nowhere in my opinion.
If the lawsuit does succeed, be prepared to get socked with a lawsuit if word ever gets out that you prayed for anybody outside of your own particular religious affiliation at your place of worship.
37
posted on
12/21/2003 9:44:36 AM PST
by
Polybius
To: szweig
Doesn't baptism represent a relationship with God? If so, how can a relationship be done to a person (what to speak to a dead one) without their knowledge or consent? Either the dead are non-existent (which is against all reason and all religion) or they have gone to their reward, one way or another. And some paperwork ain't going to help or hinder them one way or another. Just my .02...
To: thoughtomator
But when they single out Jews for this treatment, that constitutes an aggressive attack on another community. You speak from ignorance. They are not "singling out Jews". They believe they have been commanded to baptize everyone. They have probably baptized Pope Paul and Pope John Paul I and they will probably baptize Pope John Paul II the minute the smoke clears at the Vatican. They are doing what their religion commands them to do. Would you demand of them that they do less?
How would you feel if someone told you that you ought not to do something that you believe God commanded you to do because it might just offend someone's oversensitive sensibilities. Geez, talk about a left wing liberal easily offended knee jerk reaction.
Go find yourself something important to get offended about. This is nothing. If you are offended, then the problem lies in you, not in the Mormons.
39
posted on
12/21/2003 9:53:19 AM PST
by
P-Marlowe
(LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
To: thoughtomator
Considering that everybody who believes in God will need to stick together in the battle against the secularists, what they are doing is just plain stupid. I totally agree. Those who have faith in God and His moral absolutes need to stop fighting with each other and fight the atheists, secularists, etc. We can have debates about theology later. After we win the culture war.
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