IS IT TIME FOR AN "ARNOLD-TOM WIN/WIN DEAL" (?) OK. THEN HERE'S HOW....

Free Republic site ^ | 27 September 2003 | AmericanInTokyo

[BearArms]

When the PTBs of the GOP sit down, put together the math and realize "we can do it without the hardcore right anymore", the previous influence wielded will diminish drastically for certain politicians, voting blocs, organizations and pundits.

Good point. The social conservatives do themselves no good by constantly going down in blazes of glory for the sake of principle. Soon, it may become apparent that Republicans can win elections without them, at least in more liberal states. Nationally, however, I don't believe that will be the case for some time.

A more sophisticated approach for social conservatives would be to cut deals with moderate Republican candidates and move their agenda item by item. Arnold could give them several abortion restrictions, for example, but if he wins despite social conservative opposition, he may see no point in bothering.

They have a right to determine their own strategy, of course, but they shouldn't be surprized if their purist rigidity results in their being marginalized politically.

[bert]

....He may well be United States Senator.....

I've heard this suggested, but what if he doesn't want to go to Washington? DC is a long way from the left coast and family.

[ElkGroveDan]

McClintock wouldn't win even with Arnold out of the race. It's too soon after the Simon debacle to think things have changed much in this state.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Simon lost becasue of stumbles by Rob Lapsley and Ed Rollins, mostly the photo incident. That couldn't possibly be tied to McClintock.

[EGPWS]

Ronald Reagan could not be elected in California in 2003.

The political slippery slope to liberalism that we are experiencing is a progressive movement that cannot be altered is what you are saying?

[cake_crumb]

"There's your compromise. (R)nold fails to turn around our Economy, raises taxes, basically pulls a Jesse Ventura, CA decends into the 10th level of hell, I lose my job, and you can't say that Tom has anything to do with it!"

Yes, it's possible people will be stupid enough to expect him to fix Grey's economic messes overnight, and get very angry when in real life he can't. In fact, they will do exactly the same thing to McClintock because HE cannot fix the mess overnight.

After all, they're doing it with George Bush and the recession, which actially began in March of 2000 and would still be bad now if not for 9/11.

All of that is an empty intellectual exercise because when Busty wins, he'll get a pass just like with the "N" word, illegal campaign donations which he refuses to return and of course his continuing support for Aztlan/MECha.

[glennaro]

Talk about calling the kettle black ...

You confront conservatives who define a victory for conservatism differently than do you by name-calling. Because we disagree with you we're liars (never keeping there (sic) word); we're disloyal (we aim (t)o destroy conservatives in the party); we're, God forbid, liberals (the liberal wing); we're weak (we surrendered faster than the French army); and we're immoral (these Monica's(sic)).

It appears you've mastered the tired and ineffective technique of the Left you so despise. It's disappointing (and offensive) to see a fellow-conservative stoop to such a level. I am hopeful you will soon regain control of your emotions.

[nutmeg]

bump

[glennaro]

Simon lost because he didn't receive as many votes from moderates as did Davis.
Relax, Dan. We can disagree without resorting to invective.

[StriperSniper]

You just want all the foot stomping to stop so that it doesn't cause California to fall in the Pacific and send a tsunami your way. ;-)

[ElkGroveDan]

And neither is Arnold. Man you are way out there. The guy drives a Hummer not a Yugo, he's pro 2nd Amendment, not gay and does not promote abortion. He favors a woman's right to choose...both ways. If she chooses wrong it's between her and her God, alot of us feel that way. Less government regulations that way. You want to ban abortion? Your boy doesn't.

When you stand by and say its OK if someone kills someone else you are culpable. Tom McClintock and I hold the same views on abortion. Anyone who thinks banning guns from law abiding citizens is OK, is NOT a supporter of the Seocnd Amendment. Finally his enviro policies will have us all in Yugos if it were to become law.

[michigander]

LOL!

[SteveH]

AmericanInTokyo, whose flag is set to the great nation of Japan, writes:

I have no doubt there would be double crossings by the GOP Party elite whom many can not stomach CONSERVATIVES. They are NO ALLY to many of us at Free Republic.

Excellent points, all. In particular, I prefer the black-hats-versus-white-hat cheerleaders on both sides note this.

And that the mile or two of separation between Arnold and Tom now can be viewed in two ways:

an insurmountable problem or a wonderful opportunity for exploiting by both sides for mutual benefit.

The situation strongly suggests that it is to the benefit of both parties involved to consider the gap as the latter, not the former. WWKD? (What would Kissinger do? ;-)

I would fill in the following specifics:

The recall is first about the economy and budget, (stoopids ;-).

Tom's primary point is the economy and budget.

Therefore the "give" must include something tangible and immediately public on the economy and budget from Arnold (I'm presuming here the topic is McC stepping down, not Arnold. For the Arnold stepping down scenario, that might be a separate response or a separate article).

Arnold said on Hannity radio yesterday he would (as quoted by some freeper on FR somewhere) raise taxes over his dead body. OK, then he can sign a no taxes pledge, right?

Personally I would prefer he also sign a pledge to honor the Second Amendment and no new gun laws. Just my personal preference. I'm sure everyone else has their own hot buttons out there, too.

There is the concept of a campaign "peak". We all surmise the Davis machine has torpedoes primed and ready to launch for Arnold around four or so days before the election. Therefore, Arnold needs something to fire back with. If he can't change his past, he can at least throw up a cloud of smoke or change direction by scheduling a joint press conference in which he adopts several of the more important features of McClintock's campaign, and then (by sheer coincidence) turns over the podium to Tom, who says whatever he might feel inspired to say in such a circumstance.

Presto, the Arnold torpedoes are wiped off the next morning's headlines, replaced by a news of a blockbuster, tie-breaking alliance. The media can't avoid covering it, and the implications.

Doomo arigatoo for a valiant effort at constructive dialogue!

[EternalVigilance]

While Tophat perhaps could have phrased things better, I agree with the main premise.

If 'conservative leaders' had not jumped on the Arnie bandwagon a month ago, and had stayed true to the conservative cause, things would look quite a bit different today.

IMO, we would be looking at a dead heat three-way race right now.

Of course, that is history now; but as the fingers of blame are pointed, and they will be, it is an important point to remember.

GOP leadership is notorious for taking exactly the wrong lessons from elections.

[ElkGroveDan]

Simon lost because he didn't receive as many votes from moderates as did Davis. Relax, Dan. We can disagree without resorting to invective.

You are just plain wrong. Go look at the exit poll cross tabs in the LA Times. There is no evidence voters abandoned Simon on his conservatism. The abortion issue was an even push. This is a myth that gets repeated over and over. In 1998 Lungren actually GAINED votes because he was prolife. Besides, McClintock should have lost by the same amount as Simon if it was based on dislike of conservatives. McClintock came within a handful of votes of winning.

[cake_crumb]

"McClintock wouldn't win even with Arnold out of the race. It's too soon after the Simon debacle to think things have changed much in this state."

It certainly doesn't appear to be the same state which elected Reagen. The state has become a magnate for wackos.

A conservative like McClintock with a 45% D - 35% R - rest Independent voter demographic. IF Tom can make it DESPITE this fact, bless his heart and I wish him all the luck in the world. In fact, you might hear me cheering from the East coast. It just doesn't appear possible, barring a miricle.

And no, I'm not one of those loudly advocating his withdrawl yet.

[markman46]

I don't think it would be in eithers best interest for Tom Mc to drop out.I don't think he will.

[Snerfling]

then [AS] (by sheer coincidence) turns over the podium to Tom

Man, you certainly sound like some of my fellow Californians that I came of age with in the 70s, but sometime around our senior year in college we dramatically cut back on our intake, of ahem, mind altering drugs.

[EGPWS]

McClintock wouldn't win even with Arnold out of the race. It's too soon after the Simon debacle to think things have changed much in this state.

Yea, I guess you are right. It was foolish of me to even think such a thing.

What was the reason for the recall in the first place?

Let me guess, it wasn't to bail California out of it's financial demise, no it was to posture a political party in the "great state" right?

Sorry for my lack of knowlege referencing California, but I don't live there. I am just a citizen of the same country.

[cake_crumb]

Issa had a pretty good idea: to guarantee a Republican win, and also salvage his career, by simply quieting down. I'd take that a step further: next week.

Why? His mere presence is adding a voter passion and focus to this race which I have not seen in years. As long as there is fear that Busty may win - I take Grey's sudden loss of a job as a given, because if it ISN'T I'm gonna pop a cork - people will continue to bring up his racism, his illegal donations which he won't return, his continued Prop 54 ads which are STILL financed with that illegal money which he refuses to return and his promise to raise taxes.

[PeoplesRep_of_LA]

Yes, it's possible people will be stupid enough to expect him to fix Grey's economic messes overnight,

Preparing the battlefield with DAMAGE CONTROL cake_crumb? I think the thing I was referring to is the TAX INCREASES HE WILL LEVEL ON ME DESPITE HIS HALF HANDED TALK OF NOT DOING SO. Too bad, I respect you from the past on here. The adversity of this campaign has a way of clarifying things though I suppose.

All of that is an empty intellectual exercise because when Busty wins, he'll get a pass just like with the "N" word, illegal campaign donations which he refuses to return and of course his continuing support for Aztlan/MECha.

(R)nold is blathering about "Amnesty" even on his offical website, I frankly don't see that big of a difference between the two on immigration or even Aid to the children of Illegals. Then again he voted for 187 with his Wilson, so he gets to be on both sides of it. Are you aware that when Cruz was in the Leg that he voted against one of the other attempts at Illegal drivers license. Guess he wanted to be on both sides too. Lot of that going on with these 2.