Jewish and Christian leaders launch countermissionary campaign [Fighting "Jews for Jesus" people]

Jerusalem Post ^ | Aug. 27, 2003

[yonif]

B'nai Brith Canada today announced the launch of a campaign to inform members of Toronto's Jewish community about the activities of "Jews for Jesus."

Calling it the "Proud to be Jewish" Campaign," B'nai Brith's goal is to warn members of the Toronto Jewish community about the presence and methods of the missionary group and to advise them of their rights.

"This isn't about free speech," said Rochelle Wilner, president of B'nai Brith Canada. "Targeted missionizing, especially when done in a manner calculated to deceive the unsuspecting, is offensive to our community. Christianity is not a branch of Judaism it's a different religion altogether, and any attempt to portray it as anything but a different religion is subterfuge. "The term 'Jews for Jesus' makes about as much sense as 'Baptists for Buddha' or 'Catholics for Krishna,'" she said.

"We didn't want this to be just another lesson in how to answer," said Frank Dimant, executive vice president.

"Some in our community are simply not capable of countering missionaries because they have received little formal Jewish education.

"We want members of our community to know that they don't have to defend Judaism to Christian missionaries they have an absolute right to not be subjected to these ministrations in the first place."

Dr. Charles McVety, president of Canada Christian College and a leader in Canada's evangelical Christian community, spoke as well. "As a committed Christian I support the idea of preaching Christianity, but preaching Christianity under the guise of Judaism to those who are in fact seeking Judaism, is plainly wrong," said McVety.

"We unequivocally denounce any and all deceptive tactics."

[SauronOfMordor]

The fear is the fear of loss of identity. My wife is not Jewish...Hence, my three children are not Jewish. It is the idea of dilution and downsizing of the community that stirs up the folks that rail against Jews for Jesus. The most vehement "Jews against Jesus" that I know are NOT practicing Jews.

They are tribalists. They see being Jewish like being a member of a fraternity rather than a religion.

[USMMA_83]

The next sentence is going to get me burnt on FR, but here goes. The number of messiah's in Israel at that time were numerous. The Dead Sea scrolls point to that fact. Flame away...

[USMMA_83]

Good show! Also, it should be noted that the idea of Christmas (celebrated on the 25th of December) was put forth in Alexandria, Egypt. Anyone one wanna take a guess what actually was celebrated on the 25th of December in Egypt?

On a more symbolic note, the 25th is around the winter solstice. The birth of Christ then symbolizes the light that is brought into the world (after the longest night of the year).

[Pro-Bush]

Can you point me to any documents that Jesus wrote, explaining his beleifs in his own words? Or only what was written about him, mostly by people who never met they guy?

Read the New Teatament..The 12 deciples were there to do that job.

I know that and I do not attend church. What a cheap shot.

[mosby]

Persons who have a solid grounding in their own faith and tradition are not susceptible to conversion. I don't accept for a minute that the reason why JFJ is having some apparent success is that they are preying on the less well-educated in the Jewish community. This is a cop-out, pure and simple. Why are Christians having much less success in proselytizing the less well-educated in the Islamic community? I suspect it is because their faith is extremely important to them on a daily basis. Your anger and your energy should be directed towards the weakness in your own community. Much easier (and probably less internally bothersome) to simply rant about JFJ. And I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why an atheist can be a Jew but a Christian cannot (assuming that "Jew" denotes religion and not race).

[chuckles]

They themselves don't even like the term "Jew's for Jesus". They call themselves Believers. They believe the Bible. They believe the prophets. They are Jewish in heritage, and believe Jesus was the one foretold in the prophesies. If I am saved, I also believe as they do and have been grafted in, "adopted" as it were. I believe the Old Testament was an accurate accounting and prophesy of the Mesiah coming. I also believe the New Testament when Jesus claims that title. If I am a child of the King, then I am Jewish also. I just believe what God has said. If I believed Ishmael was the legitimate heir to Abraham, then the Mesiah foretold would have to be Muslim. These Jew's just believe the Bible. The term "Christian" was coined many years later as the Romans were looking to label Believers. It was to mock them. The Bible even tells us that we have no rightiousness ourselves, but rightiousness is imputed to us by our belief. Not believeing God's word is what got Adam and Eve in trouble in the first place. Abraham was rightious in God's eyes because he believed God. Noah found grace with God because he believed Him. When God said "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased", Who am I to doubt Him. Jesus said" If you've seen me you've seen the Father, I and the Father are one", Those are pretty big statements to say they are lies. You make your own choice, but if the "Jews for Jesus" choose to believe, they aren't less Jewish. They choose to believe God.

[mosby]

Forget it. I wasn't trying to be rude or obnoxious. And the comment about "Da Joos" was uncalled for. Don't know who you are, but I'll remember you. I'm out of here.

[Imal]

They choose to believe God.

So do I. I talk to God all the time, as is my right. I need no intercessor, I need worship no man, nor symbolically drink his blood nor symbolically eat his flesh.

I used to, but it never worked. Only after I approached God directly were my prayers answered. I believe God, but I do not believe Jesus, or more precisely, all the things attributed to him (I personally think he was actually a very great Essene scholar and teacher, but that's my point of view).

Does that mean I will burn in hell forever? You are free to think so, and free to be wrong. I asked God, He answered. No hell for me, sorry. All men are free to create and reside in the hell of their choice, however, so there is hope for the "fire and brimstone" crowd.

God made a covenant with my people. Despite the incredible tendency of my people to sin and turn away from God again and again, he has always welcomed us back, and has never broken a promise. God loves me, loves my people, and loves all people. This is a fact.

You are free to approach God in any way you like. I am not one to tell you how to do that. But to command ME how to approach God is wrong, and if you were to condemn me because I choose to stand before God as a Jew, it would be evil.

Believe what you want; free will is God's greatest gift to man, and one He will never take from us. So don't try to do what even God would not.

Choose to believe God, and do what is right.

[USMMA_83]

I personally think he was actually a very great Essene scholar and teacher, but that's my point of view

Have you read CC Jungs essay, "Answer to Job". To use today's lingo, "it rocks!"

[Imal]

Haven't, but maybe I should check it out. I am fond of study. :^)

[MarkL]

But what if Jesus Is Messiah? Would Jews then cease to be Jews if they then believed?

I'm no theologin, but in a word, at this time, since Jews believe that he is NOT the messiah, then no, they would no longer be Jews. Again, could a Christian be a Christian if he or she abandons a main tenant of faith?

I realize that this is a tough thing to get used to. With religion, you know you're right. You have to be, it's something that's taken on faith.

Mark

[Imal]

I think Yehuda is being a bit hard on you, but granted, my experiences with this particular group are apparently far more benign than his.

Having been on both sides of this, more or less (i.e., as a Baptist then a Jew), I can assure you, no matter which side of it you happen to be on, it's ALWAYS annoying to be told your religion isn't the "one true faith". :^)

If well wishes from an "apostate Christian" do not offend you, may God's blessings be upon you, and, of course "shalom".

[USMMA_83]

I hope you read it. Let me know what you think. It's absolutely amazing. Maybe the title, "(God's) Answer to Job" will give you clue.

[Imal]

The argument is largely semantic, and confused by the fact that Judaism is not only a religion, but a culture, and the Jews are a people (not a race) with historical and spiritual ties to Israel and Jerusalem in particular (long before the Arabs came to town).

To untangle whether or not a Christian may also be a Jew, one must be clear on the terminology.

The way I put it is this: a Jew who is a Christian may still be a Jew by birth, but is definitely NOT practising Judaism, and in fact, is violating a tremendous number of Jewish laws by practicing Christianity.

Jewish law cannot be nullified by some weasel words. Heck, even Reform Jews won't go so far as to say "Sure, go ahead and worship Jesus, it's cool."

It is not my place as a Jew to sit in judgement of other Jews. God is the greatest Judge and one whose power I will not seek to usurp. My understanding is that "once Jewish, always Jewish". Even if a person is banished from a Jewish community, he is still a Jew. So I will leave the question of whether a Christian is still a Jew as moot.

However, I can say with certainty that a person who practices Christianity, particularly the Eucharist ritual which is about as UN-kosher as it gets, is definitely NOT practicing Judaism in any way, shape or form.

I am also certain that Christianity is not at all "compatible" with Judaism, and that those who represent that it is somehow possible to practice them both at the same time is the foulest of lies.

You don't have to take my word for it, just read the Torah.

[USMMA_83]

So you think you are going to heaven? Do Jews belive in Heaven and Hell? Here is a test to find out if you are hell bound....http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv

[xm177e2]

Yes, that's what I was referring to.