The Ten Commandments vs. the U.S. Constitution

ToogoodReports.com ^ | 08/21/2003 | Lee R. Shelton IV

[sheltonmac]

*ping*

[Freedom_Is_Not_Free]

"I pointed out the common misconception many Americans have in believing that the First Amendment applies to the states"

No! This is a false argument. An idiot's argument. If the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution did not apply, then STATE governments could impose religion on us at a local level, which is not true.

The honest argument is that there is no Constitutional prohibition on an individual employed by the government from expressing his personal religious belief.

[GOPMark]

Actually there is a strong original intent argument that states could applyu state religions, considering many states had some kind of state official religion AFTER ratification. Not that It hink its a GOOD idea to have state religion, cause it's not, but strict constructionism may very well support the OPTION of such

[supercat]

If the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution did not apply, then STATE governments could impose religion on us at a local level, which is not true.

Actually, weren't there some official local and state religions at the time the Constitution was ratified? They faded out by the time of the Civil War, but at the time of the original ratification I believe official state/local religions were recognized in some places.

[SedVictaCatoni]

The honest argument is that there is no Constitutional prohibition on an individual employed by the government from expressing his personal religious belief.

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with the circumstances of Judge Moore and his stone.

[SedVictaCatoni]

Actually, weren't there some official local and state religions at the time the Constitution was ratified? They faded out by the time of the Civil War, but at the time of the original ratification I believe official state/local religions were recognized in some places.

Yes, that's quite true... at the time of the ratification of the Constitution, Congregationalism was the official religion of the State of Connecticut.

[thtr]

The first Amendment of the Constitution is the exact opposite of the First Commandment in the Bible. One says that you can worship only the LORD God; the other says that you can worship ANY God.

[fightu4it]

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or to often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

Patrick Henry

[jwalsh07]

No! This is a false argument. An idiot's argument. If the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution did not apply, then STATE governments could impose religion on us at a local level, which is not true.

Not at all. The states managed to write amendments into their Constitutions prohibiting the establishment of state relgions long before the SCOTUS "idiots" built a Wall of Separation out of whole cloth.

If you'd like I can show you documents that attest to the fact that 16 times since the ratification of the 14th Amendment, Congress attempted to begin the process of amending the Consitution to apply the First Amendment to the states as well as Congress. It failed every time. Wanna know why?

Enough people feared an overly strong central government.

By the way I don't think the First Amendment "establishment clause" applies to the states at all. That is a constraint on the feds unlike speech and the written word which are individual and inalienable rights granted by the Creator.

[MarthaNOStewart]

The real issue behind this is NOT SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, it is about changing HISTORICAL FACT. IF WE AMERICANS ALLOW THIS, our criminal justice textbooks will have to no longer mention God. CRIMINAL JUSTICE, SEVENTH EDITION BY JAMES A. INCIARDI is most widely used introduction textbook used in colleges today. On Page 43 under COMMON LAW it shows how The Ten Commandments were a large part of England's common law established by justices (not legislatures and laws)decisions using biblical scripture. The Duke of York handed to colonists of Pennsylvania the laws in form of EX: Original Criminal Code of 1676 BASED ON TEN COMMANDMENTS. It became origin of America's Criminal Justice Laws!!! Allow them to remove this reminder and they'll remove the truth from textbooks so college students won't know how much influence God had in establishing America and its LAWS!@!

[MarthaNOStewart]

Please ignore the accidental BLUE LINK on my last post, it does not represent anything.

[forktail]

Well PH aside that is completely wrong.

Thomas Jefferson was a deist. He did not believe in any religion but did beieve in God. George Washington was far more interested in Freemasonry than he was in Christianity. The Freemason's "pirate-like" deomcratic outlook on Religion is certainly what the Framers had in mind and if you disagree please look at The Federalist (Papers).

[lawdog]

Regarding religion, the First Amendment was intended to accomplish three purposes. First, it was intended to prevent the establishment of a national church or religion, or the giving of any religious sect or denomination a preferred status. Second, it was designed to safeguard the right of freedom of conscience in religious beliefs against invasion solely by the national Government. Third, it was so constructed in order to allow the States, unimpeded, to deal with religious establishments and aid to religious institutions as they saw fit.

[Tauzero]

"Well PH aside that is completely wrong.

Thomas Jefferson was a deist. He did not believe in any religion but did beieve in God."


No, not competely wrong. In fact, exactly right, when it comes to Thomas Jefferson.


Thomas Jefferson believed Jesus gave us the most sublime ethical code ever known (his word that -- sublime), and considered himself a christian, in the most meaningful sense of the word (paraphrase of Jefferson again), i.e. as a subscriber to the ethical doctrines of Jesus as put forth in the gospels.

But certainly he didn't think much of most of the self-described Christian sects of his day.

[Maelstrom]

That's the other problem.

It's just a stone, not a religious establishment, not really even a religious item.

It's merely a statue with a Biblical theme. Truly underlining the extent of anti-religion within the court system rather than emphasizing any separation between government and religion.

[comnet]

Bill Federer’s American Minute:
August 21, 2003
Born in Scotland, he was one of only six founding fathers to sign both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. President George Washington appointed him a Justice on the Supreme Court. One of the most active members at the Constitutional Convention, he spoke 168 times. His name was James Wilson and he died this day, August 21, 1798. The first law professor of the University of Pennsylvania, James Wilson wrote: "It should always be remembered, that this law, natural or revealed, flows from the same divine source; it is the law of God.... Human law must rest its authority, ultimately, upon the authority of that law, which is divine."

[NWO Slave]

Source:
Montgomery Advertiser

Ten Commandments Case index of articles

EDITORIAL
Justices must find mettle to intervene

Pryor notifies Judge Thompson of vote

[Noachian]

This is the kind of government tyranny our forefathers had hoped to avoid. Had they foreseen the effects that federal courts would have on our freedoms, the framers of the Constitution might have included a provision explicitly limiting their powers. But then again, hindsight is always 20/20.

The Founding Fathers would have done what what should be done today: Subject the unelected SCOTUS justices to direct elections by a Constitutional Amendment. That's the only way to break the stranglehold the activist/elitist court has over the people.

Some may say that electing Justices will lead to Socialism or worse, but isn't that where we're heading now? The people have a right to shape their own destiny, and that can't be done with unelected justices who come from a law school culture and change Constitutional law as they see fit.

[narses]

Ping. What says the Catholic Caucus?