New Dinosaur Species Found in India

To: Virginia-American

Not to detract from them, but a lot of the credit goes to the Admin Mod who canned als.

I'll second that, remarkable how temperate it has become, and how well these posts go from one to the other in a nice orderly unangry and noninflammatory fashion.

Just amazing....

2,401 posted on 08/24/2003 8:43:15 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

I love that cartoon, am saving it to my pictures file.

It is just too good!!

2,402 posted on 08/24/2003 8:44:23 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

Yes, that does sound awfully familiar doesn't it?

2,403 posted on 08/24/2003 8:46:25 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

To: Right Wing Professor

The sheer complexity of the religious ferment in Palestine from 100 BC to 100 AD is fascinating, and what's even more fascinating is how most of it has come to light 2000 years later, with the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hammadi finds, etc..

And you probably therefore know why that text was missing until the Dead sea scrolls were found.

That is an interesting story in itself.

And there are indeed original copies of those documents that exist, but are unavailabel for public consumption have been for the better part of 1500 years.

2,404 posted on 08/24/2003 8:55:54 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

To: PatrickHenry

Or a big flat dish!! LOL ;)

2,405 posted on 08/24/2003 8:56:58 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

To: PatrickHenry

It [allegedly "infallible" science] assumes uniformity and excludes both the suggestion that maybe conditions were not always the same as they are today and we can't even consider a supernatural explanation for things.

Perhaps you're not aware that science deals only with what can be seen, measured, and tested. If you can figure out a way to do scientific research into the supernatural, which by definition is beyond such methods, please reveal the technique.

Naturalistic, materialistic science, by declaring that everything evolved solely through naturalistic random chance occurances makes a theological statement. It trys to exclude God from the mix (rather than humbly admit that there are some things beyond the realm of science)and explain everything according to the wisdom of man. It also does a very poor job of explaining much of everything and expects the world to take as facts that man is the gradual result of chance. It does not adequately explain intelligence, ignores known things (the impersonal creating the personal), and otherwise pushes what in reality is an unproven hypothesis. Examples of "missing links" are heralded before the public as fact, even though each link is highly speculative and debated (even by evolutionists). And, yet, evolutionary science expects to be lauded for its objectivity. It sees what it wants to see and discounts everything else. Whether or not God can be measured, His presence is witnessed in everything around us. Some are willfully blind to it, but it is there.

No theory comes forward in a vacuum. People's experiences, presuppositions, and biases all shape how they look at things.

That is why scientific observations and tests are reviewed by other labs, to filter out the biases of some individual. Often, results are studied and confirmed by people halfway around the world. There is no reason why scientists in America, India, Japan, and Israel will all come out with the same results unless there's more to the story than the biased outlook of some flawed individual.
First of all, the comment was on Darwin. Second, would you send an agent of Osama Bin Laden before a jury of Al Qaeda for judgment? The peers reviewing the evidence also have a highly evolutionary bias. If you don't believe me, just watch something that has been radiocarbon dated an age that doesn't agree with previous knowledge. Either the date will change to the previous knowledge or the previous knowledge will change to the date. But, by all means, one must preserve the evolutionary model.

Darwin sought to explain world without God then superficially added a few "The Creator" phrases to make it more palatable to an 19th century audience. He was not a Christian and the theory he proposed did not honor the creator of anything.

I don't think you have any evidence that demonstrates such was his purpose. But even if it were, none of that affects the scientific value of the theory itself. It's either good science or it's not. Is Evolution Science?.
I have posted quotes earlier from his restored biography. Darwin was not a trained scientist. He was an athiestic/agnostic skeptic trying to explain the world while under the influence of the theories of the lawyer, Charles Lyell. Lyell, incidentally, was known to have fudged dates, including the dating of Niagara falls. He once asked a local about the rate of erosion of the gorge. Because the number was too small, in Lyell's view, and would have made for a much younger gorge, Lyell pulled a figure out of his hat and BOOM, it took 35,000 years to form that gorge. Subsequent testing shows it was less than 10,000 and that the number was even smaller than the local had stated.

Chance mutation is all we are, and that is diametrically opposed to the Word of God.

The solar system is also opposed to the Word of God. There are probably more geocentric passages in scripture than there are which conflict with evolution. But that doesn't bother you. I still don't know why.
Because the Bible is not purporting to be a science book, and none of the supposed "geocentric" passages are purporting to be a statement of God's design. I will just be criticized for posting another AIG link, but AIG and Christiananswers.net among other links have plenty of information regarding the Galileo controversy as well as the supposed geocentrism of Scripture.

Galileo taught things which contradicted not the Bible but church teaching. This is where he ran into trouble. There is no conflict between Scripture and true Science.

Sorry. Actual scriptural passages were presented at Galileo's trial. There's no getting around it; the bible is a geocentric book. I can give you a list of several such passages, but I assume you're already familiar with them. The churchmen who prosecuted Galileo were quite well informed about their scripture.
Again, I refer you to the websites listed above. However, Galileo's problems were more with the Aristotelian thinking of the churchmen of his day as opposed to Copernican thinking - and the Bible would have been used out of context to back up those assumptions.

I'm definitely not castigating Christians because of Galileo. What I'm trying to suggest is that the struggle you are waging (for the literal interpretation of scripture) is a battle what was waged -- and lost -- nearly 400 years ago. If you can accept the solar system, you can also accept evolution. The Roman Catholic church has learned from its past errors, and now accepts both.
Sorry, the word is inerrant and can be taken literally (unless common sense says not to do so). Adam was viewed as literal by Jesus, Paul, and the early church. The fact that the R.C. church has apostacized itself by accepting evolution does not change the unchangeable truth of God's Word.

It is important to set proper limits to the understanding of Scripture, excluding any unseasonable interpretations which would make it mean something which it is not intended to mean. In order to mark out the limits of their own proper fields, theologians and those working on the exegesis of the Scripture need to be well informed regarding the results of the latest scientific research.

Give me a break! First of all, the "latest scientific research" changes with the wind. It will continue to change with the wind. It is inadequate to explain what we see and furthermore presents a worldview that is downright dangerous. With that said, I do find it important as a seminary educated theologian (also have a secular Masters and Bachelors) to stay on top of what is going on in the world of science, but hardly look to it as some sort of authority which can change the truth of the Word of God. I made the argument before, but just think about it. If the Genesis account of creation is only an allegory, then you have no foundation (other than some fairy tale) for marriage, for families, for sin and salvation, or a need for a Savior. If Genesis is untrue, what basis do you have to trust any more of the book? What if the story of Jesus is just a morality tale, an allegory? No. The Word of God is not full of allegory, and Augustine caused more damage to the world of theology by popularizing such interpretation and hardly anyone I can think of. The Word of God is true. It is livable. It makes sense. It rings true to what we observe. And, no scientist is going to topple it.

Pope John Paul II
MESSAGE TO THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES: ON EVOLUTION
22 October 1996
The source of the above is available for you to check for yourself: The Pope's 1996 Message on Evolution. I praise them for their enlightened attitude. That is not castigation.
I do not desire to get into a Catholic church debate on this thread. Suffice it to say, that I believe the Pope is completely wrong on this and disagree that this is an "enlightened" attitude at all. It is apostacy, and I shudder for the damage it will do to the members of the Catholic faith.

2,406 posted on 08/24/2003 9:00:30 PM PDT by DittoJed2

How can you claim to be a Christian and put the word God in quotations? Do you not fear your creator?

2,407 posted on 08/24/2003 9:03:48 PM PDT by DittoJed2

LOL, you are a bad, bad man!!

2,408 posted on 08/24/2003 9:04:50 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

Good post A-G, excellent!!

2,409 posted on 08/24/2003 9:07:32 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

OK, now I have to go back and bookmark all of these, I didn't even realize that they were posted on the web.

Thanks...

2,410 posted on 08/24/2003 9:09:57 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

The history at the time of the gospels, and the other stories that were around at the time, help put the whole bible into perspective.

It's fascinating to compare them, and realize how similar some of the stories are to others.

2,411 posted on 08/24/2003 9:13:13 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

OK, you talked me into it, I'm number three, got my flamethrower ready, just give me the place, the date and the time, and we'll have a ball!! ;)

2,412 posted on 08/24/2003 9:19:25 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

I never claimed that I was still a Christian.

I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, but am No longer a Catholic or a Christian.

And NO, I have NOTHING to fear from my creator.

NOTHING at all.

2,413 posted on 08/24/2003 9:24:57 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

Wow, ALL caught up, now I have to go back and read all of those GREAT links you guys were throwing around.

That will Definitely take until next Wednesday.

2,414 posted on 08/24/2003 9:26:15 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

Fine. I was just afraid you being inconsistent.

2,415 posted on 08/24/2003 9:26:28 PM PDT by DittoJed2

Let me rephrase that
LONG WINDED ALWAYS HAS TO HAVE THE LAST WORD CRYBABY.

2,416 posted on 08/24/2003 9:32:52 PM PDT by goodseedhomeschool (returned) (If history has shown us anything, labeling ignorance science, proves scripture correct)

To some it sounds inconsistent, because they make an assumption and stick to that assumption.

I do not discuss my religion on this forum, nor any other forum, because it is no one elses business, nor is it important to me whether someone else believes as I do.

Everyone believes as they are supposed to or needs to.

If your belief gives you comfort, gives you a basis for your morality, and helps you deal with your mortality, then that is what is important.

It is NOT my place to tell you that it is wrong, until of course it effects things that are out of the purview of religion and philosophy, most notably of course, that would be science.

Keep your religion out of science, and we get along fine, but once you try and force your religious belief as some sort of scientific limit, then I will step in and tell you that you are indeed wrong, and as wrong as you can be.

2,417 posted on 08/24/2003 9:34:12 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

To: concisetraveler

Boy, you sound awfully familiar, where have I heard crybaby before?

Are you gonna start calling me other things as well, oh, such as chihuahua, or perhaps Sparky?

2,418 posted on 08/24/2003 9:36:23 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

Is that what others have called you? Why does that not surprise me.

2,419 posted on 08/24/2003 9:38:28 PM PDT by goodseedhomeschool (returned) (If history has shown us anything, labeling ignorance science, proves scripture correct)

To: concisetraveler

Well, we shall soon see, the Mod's do not like it when a banned poster comes back as another, or had 2 going at the same time.

So we shall see how soon you give the game away.

I myself am pretty much convinced, so at this point, you will go on ignore, just as you did before.

Buh bye ALS.

2,420 posted on 08/24/2003 9:43:06 PM PDT by Aric2000 (If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance god)

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