Posted on 08/13/2003 9:02:05 PM PDT by nwrep
2 hours, 55 minutes ago
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By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM, Associated Press Writer
BOMBAY, India - U.S. and Indian scientists said Wednesday they have discovered a new carnivorous dinosaur species in India after finding bones in the western part of the country.
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The new dinosaur species was named Rajasaurus narmadensis, or "Regal reptile from the Narmada," after the Narmada River region where the bones were found.
The dinosaurs were between 25-30 feet long, had a horn above their skulls, were relatively heavy and walked on two legs, scientists said. They preyed on long-necked herbivorous dinosaurs on the Indian subcontinent during the Cretaceous Period at the end of the dinosaur age, 65 million years ago.
"It's fabulous to be able to see this dinosaur which lived as the age of dinosaurs came to a close," said Paul Sereno, a paleontologist at the University of Chicago. "It was a significant predator that was related to species on continental Africa, Madagascar and South America."
Working with Indian scientists, Sereno and paleontologist Jeff Wilson of the University of Michigan reconstructed the dinosaur skull in a project funded partly by the National Geographic (news - web sites) Society.
A model of the assembled skull was presented Wednesday by the American scientists to their counterparts from Punjab University in northern India and the Geological Survey of India during a Bombay news conference.
Scientists said they hope the discovery will help explain the extinction of the dinosaurs and the shifting of the continents how India separated from Africa, Madagascar, Australia and Antarctica and collided with Asia.
The dinosaur bones were discovered during the past 18 years by Indian scientists Suresh Srivastava of the Geological Survey of India and Ashok Sahni, a paleontologist at Punjab University.
When the bones were examined, "we realized we had a partial skeleton of an undiscovered species," Sereno said.
The scientists said they believe the Rajasaurus roamed the Southern Hemisphere land masses of present-day Madagascar, Africa and South America.
"People don't realize dinosaurs are the only large-bodied animal that lived, evolved and died at a time when all continents were united," Sereno said.
The cause of the dinosaurs' extinction is still debated by scientists. The Rajasaurus discovery may provide crucial clues, Sereno said.
India has seen quite a few paleontological discoveries recently.
In 1997, villagers discovered about 300 fossilized dinosaur eggs in Pisdura, 440 miles northeast of Bombay, that Indian scientists said were laid by four-legged, long-necked vegetarian creatures.
Indian scientists said the dinosaur embryos in the eggs may have suffocated during volcanic eruptions.
The same viral sequence in the same place would be a big blow to standard biology. Perhaps some anti-evo group like DI or ICR could start doing (peer-reviewed, reproducible) research to try to find such things. AFAIK, none are known at present - the only animals with the same virus in the same place are already known to be related, things like apes and people, or whales hippos and cows. Oh well.
Another example of evos making a prediction which, if it weren't fulfilled, would falsify the theory. Compare this one to "if viral remains are found in the same place in whale and cow dna, they will also be in the same place in hippo dna"
The anti-evos have yet to make any such predictions, showing that they're not practicing science. What possible observation would be evidence against "[the designer] just did it that way?"
Pythagoras is traditionally credited with the first proof that the Earth is a sphere. His logic was that its shadow, seen on the Moon during an eclipse is always round, no matter where in the sky or where on the Moon the eclipse is taking place. The only solid that always casts a round shadow is a sphere. QED
Wieland also says this:
Pakicetus was claimed to be a walking whale yet the type specimen consisted only of jaw and skull fragments.For a long time, we had no post-cranial Pakicetus bones. Since 2000, we do.
Some creationist sources are still running around pretending that we don't know what Paki looked like post-cranially. Creation science is somehow allowed to use old sources in misleading ways for some greater good.
Pakicetus is not the only such case among the cetaceans. See also: Ambulocetus Has No Pelvis and is Largely Incomplete? AiG strikes again!
Where did you check besides AiG? ICR?
There's a lot more material on the web page. Reading it before replying would have been a good idea.
What are you even trying to say in 2039?
Remember how we got here? I mentioned that the designer not only filled the sea with fish but then used mammal parts to make whales, but he left a trail of funny fossils that seems to show land animals gradually losing their legs and becoming sea creatures.
You denied that any such thing exists at all. Was that a lie? We're past the point whether such a thing exists. We're now discussing whether you can get each species thrown out on a technicality. Pakicetus -- "They changed their story!" Ambulocetus -- "Crucially, the all-important pelvic girdle was not found (see diagram, right)." I refuted this in my previous post. So here's you back again with the same troll for suckers. Does me no good to anticipate, does it? You're just going to reach in your little box of AiG tracts and pull out number 11 anyway.
Here's the Ambulocetus a little bigger. Most people can see the pelvic bones. Maybe you can get Dr. Sarfati's attention.
If you don't care about the details, you think a whale is a fish and a thylacine is a dog. Your ignorance is not science.
I realize you do not see a paradox here - and I have found one scholar (Chris King) who also dismisses it with a Hellenistic hand wave. But the other scholars I've read are not so easily convinced.
Here are some of my "digs" (I found the first two sections online in several places and didn't select for the 'best' source.)
The third Enochian book, the Book of Astronomy, is considered the oldest of those preserved, thought to have been written well before the second century. It contains a description of the structure of the universe as well as the details of a 364 day solar calendar, a calendar that seems to have been popular especially in the Dead Sea Scrolls although it is well supported by another pseudepigraphic book, Jubilees.
"Chaps. 72-82 The Astronomical Book, like the Book of Watchers, may date from the third century BCE; the oldest copy of it seems to have been made not long after 200 BCE. Sizable portions of the text are preserved on four copies, written in Aramaic, from Qumran cave 4. The Aramaic original appears to have been much different and much longer than the Ethiopic text, adding far more astronomical details." - James C. Vanderkam
1 Enoch is an unmistakable product of Hellenistic civilization. A world view so encyclopaediac that it embraced the geography of heaven and earth, astronomy, meteorology, medicine was no part of Jewish tradition - but was familiar to educated Greeks, but attempting to emulate and surpass Greek wisdom, by having an integrating divine plan for destiny, elaborated through an angelic host with which Enoch is in communication through his mystical travels. - Chris King.
"One of the most remarkable features of 1 Enoch is that the law revealed to Moses on Mt. Sinai plays almost no part in it at all. It could be objected that it would be more surprising if it did have a role, since 1 Enoch is, of course, about Enoch who lived before the flood (see Gen 5:21-24) and thus long before the law was revealed. The argument would be that the authors of 1 Enoch were consistent about their pseudepigraphic attribution of the material to Enoch and therefore did not commit the anachronism of having him teach and obey the law of Moses.
"But there is a flaw in that argument because at least two places in the book should mention the law revealed on Mt. Sinai. The two places are in the two principal apocalypses, the Apocalypse of Weeks and the Animal Apocalypse. Both of these revelations cover the period when Israel was in the wilderness and, according to the pentateuch, received the covenantal law." - James C. Vanderkam
The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha volume I - Charlesworth
Some scholars believe that the original language of 1 Enoch is Hebrew; others, however, think it is Aramaic; still others contend that the book, like Daniel, was composed partly in Hebrew and partly in Aramaic.
We are not certain about the city or place in which 1 Enoch was, or its constituent parts were, composed. However, it is clear that the work originated in Judea and was in use at Qumran before the beginning of the Christian period.
93.2 And Enoch said: "Concerning the sons of righteousness, and concerning the chosen of the world, and concerning the plant of righteousness and uprightness, I will speak these things to you, and make them known to you, my children. I, Enoch, according to that which appeared to me in the Heavenly vision, and that which I know from the words of the Holy Angels, and understanding from the Tablets of Heaven."
93.3 And Enoch then began to speak from the books, and said: "I was born the seventh, in the first week, while justice and righteousness still lasted.
93.4 And, after me, in the second week, great injustice will arise, and deceit will have sprung up. And in it there will be the First End, and in it, a man will be saved. And after it has ended, iniquity will grow, and He will make a law for the sinners.
93.5 And after this in the third week, at its end, a man will be chosen as the Plant of Righteous Judgment, and after him will come the Plant of Righteousness, forever.
93.6 And after this, in the fourth week, at its end, visions of the righteous and Holy will be seen, and a Law for All Generations, and an enclosure will be made for them.
93.7 And after this, in the fifth week, at its end, a House of Glory and Sovereignty will be built forever.
93.8 And after this, in the sixth week, all those who live in it will be blinded. And the hearts of them all, lacking wisdom, will sink into impiety. And in it, a man will ascend, and at its end the House of Sovereignty will be burnt with fire. And in it the whole race of the chosen root will be scattered.
93.9 And after this, in the seventh week, an apostate generation will arise. And many will be its deeds - but all its deeds will be apostasy.
93.10 And at its end, the Chosen Righteous, from the Eternal Plant of Righteousness, will be chosen, to whom will be given sevenfold teaching, concerning his whole creation.
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