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Gibson's gaffe. Mel Gibson needs to take a history class.
Jewsweek ^ | 7/31/03 | Regenstein

Posted on 07/30/2003 8:19:47 PM PDT by DPB101

Gibson's gaffe. Mel Gibson needs to take a history class. It was the Romans, not the Jews, who were the Christ killers.

The flood of recent articles and publicity on Mel Gibson's forthcoming movie on Jesus' crucifixion have failed to mention the most important point about this controversy: if the movie does tell the truth about the cruelty and brutality of Jesus' crucifixion, it will make it clear that it was the Romans, not the Jews, who are the real "Christ killers".

According to the Christian Bible ( the "New Testament", especially the Gospel of Mark), Jesus, his family, and virtually all of his followers and disciples at the time were Jews. Jesus preached almost exclusively to the Jews ("the multitudes"), who dined and walked with him. It was his popularity with the Jewish people that caused Jesus to be killed by the ruling Roman authorities; and it was Jews who took Jesus off the cross, prepared him for "burial," mourned him, and then got the blame for the crime.

While a small clique of Jewish collaborators in the ruling classes are purported to have urged the Romans on, they had no real political power, all of which was held by the ruling Romans. All accounts make it clear that it was Romans who condemned Jesus to death, tortured him, put a crown of thorns on his head, spat on him, crucified him, even ran him through with a sword, fearing that this popular Jewish reformer with a huge Jewish following was a threat to Roman law and order.

The Romans went on to kill Jesus' closest disciples Peter and Paul, along with countless other Jewish "Christians", and eventually killed or expelled from the region almost all of the Jews, thus setting the stage for 2,000 years of Jewish suffering and persecution, and for the violence and territorial disputes that plague the Holy Land today.

It is unfortunate that Gibson's movie will apparently fail to make it clear who really killed Jesus, and instead will repeat the ancient blood libels that actually contradict the New Testament's account of the murder, and which have been used since that time to stir up hatred for Jesus' own people.

Indeed, the New Testament account of these events could be used to discredit Gibson's movie, which he claims is based on the truthful version of events as set forth in the Christian bible.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: acts236; barabus; catholiclist; gibson; passion
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To: Alberta's Child
There's substantial evidence that when the Romans sacked Jerusalem it had a substantial Christian minority ~ maybe as great as 30% of the population. And that didn't mean that the other 70% were entirely Jewish.

The sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans had nothing more to do with some sort of Divine Judgment on Jews than it did some sort of Divine Judment on Christians.

61 posted on 07/30/2003 9:30:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Varda
I was also an adult before I heard (also from Jewish sources) that Christians believed that "Jews" (as in all Jews) were responsible for the death of Christ.

I don't know any Christian who believes "all Jews" are responsible for the death of Christ.

That is incorrect.

It was the religious leaders who insisted Jesus be executed.
There were many Jews who were followers of Christ.

62 posted on 07/30/2003 9:31:20 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: DPB101
Man, someone is watching over this movie. Mel's getting huge amounts of advertising, millions worth from those who don't want this movie to make it to the screen.

You couldn't design a marketing program like this and successfully pull it off.

63 posted on 07/30/2003 9:31:56 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore
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To: Burkeman1
Great comments.
64 posted on 07/30/2003 9:33:09 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: DPB101
actually it was anyone who has committed a sin
65 posted on 07/30/2003 9:34:47 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (When I am asked what my political preference is, I answer "Christian".)
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To: DPB101
um...yes...my sin...and His love for me...and all of us, moved Jesus to lay down His own life.

"'...I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.' Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings." John 10:14-19

...I guess there's still division over His words. And always will be.

66 posted on 07/30/2003 9:37:53 PM PDT by woollyone (careful!...the sheep bite! baaa)
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To: DPB101
"The only people I have heard say that are Jews who say Christians say that. Had the same experience regarding gays and race. I've not heard the things attributed to conservatives on those subjects from anyone but gays, blacks and liberals."

I had never thought about it before, but I have had the same experience. I ahve never heard a Christian say that.

67 posted on 07/30/2003 9:38:00 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore
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To: Jorge
Likewise I don't know and have never known any Christian who thinks Jews collectively are responsible for Christs' death. Yet I recently read a Jewish publication that claimed that the Catholic church once held the idea as doctrine but the doctrine was overturned in Vatican II. Like I said I was never taught that nor have I seen any such doctrine but there are people out there making this claim. I find it slanderous.
68 posted on 07/30/2003 9:40:05 PM PDT by Varda
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To: breakem
This is not a faith issue. It is a history issue and you'll probably never know. So the comments about Gibson are unprovable and arrogant.

When there's some provable history, we'll all take the lesson.

Christianity is well documented in the New Testament. Read the Gospels. In Luke, Christ complained about the hypocrisy of the "priests." He complained about the wealth they accumulated. The crucifixion of Christ parallels that of the death sentence of Socrates. They both complained about the leaders of society. They both paid with their lives. Socrates stayed dead. Christ rose. So, for the latter we get a miracle and a new religion.

69 posted on 07/30/2003 9:41:49 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: DPB101
It was my understanding that no Christians existed when Christ was put to death. There were jews, jewish followers of Christ, Romans and others. Christ came to die so we all could be forgiven. He came to die. It could not be changed. His death was everyones salvation, if only they believed. I see here no way to condemn anyone for all of man's sins, the real reason God chose to send his son to die for us. Without the Jews, Jesus would have had no forum to reach the world.
70 posted on 07/30/2003 9:45:01 PM PDT by TAP ONLINE (Url is at top. Interesting article.)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
I've read it all several times, so your suggestion was presumptious.

You cannot accurately claim that there was a direct reporting witness to any and all discussions between the Romans and the leaders of the Jews about the crucifiction. Even if we agreed that the proclamations in fornt of the crowd are as reported a century later, we cannot know what was said otherwise.

To pretend that the gospels are complete history on this matter or many others is both unprovable and a matter of faith, not history.

71 posted on 07/30/2003 9:47:26 PM PDT by breakem
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To: DPB101
Is the author "washing his hands of it".
72 posted on 07/30/2003 9:47:39 PM PDT by wardaddy (True happiness is nuts after the flop.)
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To: swilhelm73
The fact that some Jews...and some Romans...killed Christ does not tarnish either group today in anyway, and no one, Gibson or otherwise, is trying to make this out to be the case.

Good point....are the Italians bashing this movie too?

73 posted on 07/30/2003 9:50:05 PM PDT by wardaddy (True happiness is nuts after the flop.)
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To: swilhelm73
Jesus confounded and challenged many people -- it is not surprising that even people who were enemies agreed that Jesus had to be silenced. This sordid behavior is not unique to Romans or Jews -- it is human nature. If Jesus had appeared to different cultures or at different times, people would have reacted the same. Anyone who brings any light into the world is bound to be hated. This was true thousands of years ago, and you can have absolute confidence that this will be true tomorrow. The crowd always prefers Barabbas.

I can understand a Jew overreacting to anything that could give credence to the "blood libel" myth. Only stupid people believe the "blood libel" myth. Unfortunately, the world is full of stupid people who from time to time violently inflict their stupidity on others. There are those who hate because that is all they are capable of doing, and they will cling to any rationalization, however empty it is. It is ironic that the same anti-Semites who believe the blood libel are the same people who would kill Jesus, if they could.

74 posted on 07/30/2003 9:51:01 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (Lurking since 1997!)
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To: DPB101
Gibson's gaffe. Mel Gibson needs to take a history class. It was the Romans, not the Jews, who were the Christ killers.

That's it?
On the basis of that absurd statement Gibson needs lessons?

I admire Israel unconditionally, but it's depressing to find that she has her share of idiots too.

If the perverts have the Feds arrest me for saying the "wrong" word, true, the Feds did it, not the deviants.

If I shoot the teller at the bank for refusing to hand out the money, can I say "it was the gun's doing" as a defense?

I have always been a Christian but I never thought of the Jews as killers.
No more so than I consider Americans killers on account of Waco or Ruby Ridge.
How silly can this get?

75 posted on 07/30/2003 9:51:25 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: DPB101
Gibson doesn't blame the Jews.

This if bad reporting and total BS from yet another liar in the press that hasn't seen the movie.

Yawn.
76 posted on 07/30/2003 9:51:44 PM PDT by Fledermaus (DimbulbRats have a mental disease - Arrested Brain Development.)
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To: swilhelm73
It seems to me the responsibility for Jesus's cruxificition is shared between the Roman and Jewish leaders of the time in Israel.

It seems to me that the responsibility for Jesus's cruxificition is shared by certain individual Jews and an individual Roman.

Some Jewish religious leaders played a part and the Roman Pilate did not have the manhood to do what he believed was right.

Jesus, the Apostles and Mary were Jews. Were they to blame?

My ancestors, who were then living in the Roman province of Hispania, were Roman citizens or subjects at the time. Were they to blame?

I believe in individual responsibility and not collective guilt. It's a fault of mine.

77 posted on 07/30/2003 9:52:07 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Varda
The Catholic Church never held that Jews were responsible for the death of Christ. Without Christ's death and resurection there never would have been a Catholic Church much less any Christian sect. How many Papal Bulls were issued condemning the notion that the "Jews killed Christ" over the centuries? Hundreds? Who was the main protector of Jews in Europe and tried to fight against ignorant peasant understandings of Christianity that resulted in attacks on Jews? The Vatican! During the Black Death in the late 1340's when Jews were being blamed all over Europe for the plauge what one authority tried to protect them? The Pope and the Catholic Church.
78 posted on 07/30/2003 9:52:45 PM PDT by Burkeman1 (If you see ten troubles comin down the road, Nine will run into the ditch before they reach you.)
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To: Intolerant in NJ
Andrew Lloyd Webber's Jesus Christ Superstar the same message was given ......
I don't remember any objections at all to either the Broadway presentation or the movie......

I live in Kansas City, and remember quite vividly the night I went to see the play.
There were protesters everywhere. It recieved a pretty good amount of publicity, as well. ( Protests made National Television News )

Same thing happened with "Last Temptation of Christ", and a movie whose title I can't recall, where a modern Jesus was born to a prostitute?

Anytime someone does the subject of Christ, there is objection and contravercy..

79 posted on 07/30/2003 9:53:37 PM PDT by Drammach
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To: Fledermaus
P.S.

All Gibson does is show the last 12 hours of the life of Jesus based on fact.

He doesn't dwelve into the politics of the issue like some whiney journalist.

And just why do they get so whiney on an issue like this? Are they afraid people might watch the film and maybe not be indocrinated into their worship of crap with naked teens or something blowing up in every shot?

Double Yawn.
80 posted on 07/30/2003 9:54:00 PM PDT by Fledermaus (DimbulbRats have a mental disease - Arrested Brain Development.)
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