Posted on 07/30/2003 8:19:47 PM PDT by DPB101
Gibson's gaffe. Mel Gibson needs to take a history class. It was the Romans, not the Jews, who were the Christ killers.
The flood of recent articles and publicity on Mel Gibson's forthcoming movie on Jesus' crucifixion have failed to mention the most important point about this controversy: if the movie does tell the truth about the cruelty and brutality of Jesus' crucifixion, it will make it clear that it was the Romans, not the Jews, who are the real "Christ killers".
According to the Christian Bible ( the "New Testament", especially the Gospel of Mark), Jesus, his family, and virtually all of his followers and disciples at the time were Jews. Jesus preached almost exclusively to the Jews ("the multitudes"), who dined and walked with him. It was his popularity with the Jewish people that caused Jesus to be killed by the ruling Roman authorities; and it was Jews who took Jesus off the cross, prepared him for "burial," mourned him, and then got the blame for the crime.
While a small clique of Jewish collaborators in the ruling classes are purported to have urged the Romans on, they had no real political power, all of which was held by the ruling Romans. All accounts make it clear that it was Romans who condemned Jesus to death, tortured him, put a crown of thorns on his head, spat on him, crucified him, even ran him through with a sword, fearing that this popular Jewish reformer with a huge Jewish following was a threat to Roman law and order.
The Romans went on to kill Jesus' closest disciples Peter and Paul, along with countless other Jewish "Christians", and eventually killed or expelled from the region almost all of the Jews, thus setting the stage for 2,000 years of Jewish suffering and persecution, and for the violence and territorial disputes that plague the Holy Land today.
It is unfortunate that Gibson's movie will apparently fail to make it clear who really killed Jesus, and instead will repeat the ancient blood libels that actually contradict the New Testament's account of the murder, and which have been used since that time to stir up hatred for Jesus' own people.
Indeed, the New Testament account of these events could be used to discredit Gibson's movie, which he claims is based on the truthful version of events as set forth in the Christian bible.
The sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans had nothing more to do with some sort of Divine Judgment on Jews than it did some sort of Divine Judment on Christians.
I don't know any Christian who believes "all Jews" are responsible for the death of Christ.
That is incorrect.
It was the religious leaders who insisted Jesus be executed.
There were many Jews who were followers of Christ.
You couldn't design a marketing program like this and successfully pull it off.
"'...I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.' Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings." John 10:14-19
...I guess there's still division over His words. And always will be.
I had never thought about it before, but I have had the same experience. I ahve never heard a Christian say that.
When there's some provable history, we'll all take the lesson.
Christianity is well documented in the New Testament. Read the Gospels. In Luke, Christ complained about the hypocrisy of the "priests." He complained about the wealth they accumulated. The crucifixion of Christ parallels that of the death sentence of Socrates. They both complained about the leaders of society. They both paid with their lives. Socrates stayed dead. Christ rose. So, for the latter we get a miracle and a new religion.
You cannot accurately claim that there was a direct reporting witness to any and all discussions between the Romans and the leaders of the Jews about the crucifiction. Even if we agreed that the proclamations in fornt of the crowd are as reported a century later, we cannot know what was said otherwise.
To pretend that the gospels are complete history on this matter or many others is both unprovable and a matter of faith, not history.
Good point....are the Italians bashing this movie too?
I can understand a Jew overreacting to anything that could give credence to the "blood libel" myth. Only stupid people believe the "blood libel" myth. Unfortunately, the world is full of stupid people who from time to time violently inflict their stupidity on others. There are those who hate because that is all they are capable of doing, and they will cling to any rationalization, however empty it is. It is ironic that the same anti-Semites who believe the blood libel are the same people who would kill Jesus, if they could.
That's it?
On the basis of that absurd statement Gibson needs lessons?
I admire Israel unconditionally, but it's depressing to find that she has her share of idiots too.
If the perverts have the Feds arrest me for saying the "wrong" word, true, the Feds did it, not the deviants.
If I shoot the teller at the bank for refusing to hand out the money, can I say "it was the gun's doing" as a defense?
I have always been a Christian but I never thought of the Jews as killers.
No more so than I consider Americans killers on account of Waco or Ruby Ridge.
How silly can this get?
It seems to me that the responsibility for Jesus's cruxificition is shared by certain individual Jews and an individual Roman.
Some Jewish religious leaders played a part and the Roman Pilate did not have the manhood to do what he believed was right.
Jesus, the Apostles and Mary were Jews. Were they to blame?
My ancestors, who were then living in the Roman province of Hispania, were Roman citizens or subjects at the time. Were they to blame?
I believe in individual responsibility and not collective guilt. It's a fault of mine.
I live in Kansas City, and remember quite vividly the night I went to see the play.
There were protesters everywhere. It recieved a pretty good amount of publicity, as well. ( Protests made National Television News )
Same thing happened with "Last Temptation of Christ", and a movie whose title I can't recall, where a modern Jesus was born to a prostitute?
Anytime someone does the subject of Christ, there is objection and contravercy..
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