Undersea vents possible origin of life

MSNBC ^ | 07/24/03 | Robert Roy Britt

[bedolido]

July 24 — In a new study, researchers speculate that a towering undersea hot-water chimney laden with microbes is just the sort of place that might have spawned life on Earth or even other planets.

THE HYDROTHERMAL VENT SYSTEM discovered two years ago has now been found to have endured for 30,000 years. Researchers said similar setups — on Earth and possibly on other worlds — might last millions of years and could have been incubators for the first life. The Lost City, as it has been named, is a craggy column of minerals and microbes sitting 2,500 feet below the surface of the Atlantic Ocean. It is 180 feet (55 meters) tall, higher than any other known underwater vent system and more than twice as tall as most.

UNIQUE SYSTEM Underneath the structure, seawater seeps down into the fractured crust of Earth. There, the decay of one mineral forms another, called serpentine, and releases heat in the process. This process of serpentinization lifts warm water laden with minerals back into the ocean, building the structure.

[LiteKeeper]

Your definition of "information" is specious and has no scientific merit. Incorrect assumptions leading to incorrect conclusions.

My definition is scientific. To be specific, I am quoting Dr Werner Gitt, Director and Professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology. He has written numerous scientific papers in the field of information science, numerical mathematics, and control engineering.

"All the scientific research, experiments and observations carried out in the twentieth century show that the answer to this question is a definite "No." The director of the German Federal Physics and Technology Institute, Prof. Werner Gitt, has this to say on the issue:

A coding system always entails a nonmaterial intellectual process. A physical matter cannot produce an information code. All experiences show that every piece of creative information represents some mental effort and can be traced to a personal idea-giver who exercised his own free will, and who is endowed with an intelligent mind.... There is no known law of nature, no known process and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter...385

It is impossible for the information inside DNA to have emerged by chance and natural processes.

Werner Gitt's words summarize the conclusions of "information theory," which has been developed in the last 50 years, and which is accepted as a part of thermodynamics. Information theory investigates the origin and nature of the information in the universe. The conclusion reached by information theoreticians as a result of long studies is that "Information is something different from matter. It can never be reduced to matter. The origin of information and physical matter must be investigated separately."

Werner Gitt, In the Beginning Was Information, CLV, Bielefeld, Germany, pp. 107, 141

When we apply this scientific definition of information to nature, a very important result ensues. This is because nature overflows with an immense body of information (as, for example, in the case of DNA), and since this information cannot be reduced to matter, it therefore comes from a source beyond matter.

One of the foremost advocates of the theory of evolution, George C. Williams, admits this reality, which most materialists and evolutionists are reluctant to see. Williams has strongly defended materialism for years, but in an article he wrote in 1995, he states the incorrectness of the materialist (reductionist) approach which holds that everything is matter:

Evolutionary biologists have failed to realize that they work with two more or less incommensurable domains: that of information and that of matter… These two domains will never be brought together in any kind of the sense usually implied by the term "reductionism." …The gene is a package of information, not an object... In biology, when you're talking about things like genes and genotypes and gene pools, you're talking about information, not physical objective reality... This dearth of shared descriptors makes matter and information two separate domains of existence, which have to be discussed separately, in their own terms.

Therefore, contrary to the supposition of materialists, the source of the information in nature cannot be matter itself. The source of information is not matter but a superior Wisdom beyond matter. This Wisdom existed prior to matter. The possessor of this Wisdom is God, the Lord of all the Worlds. Matter was brought into existence, given form, and organized by Him.

[Aric2000]

But he had to do it via the literal interpratation of genesis? Is that right?

I have no argument with you if you want to say that "god" in whatever form, got it all started, and abiogenesis, and evolution all occurred as science has oberved. You won't get an argument from me at all. Just don't expect me to say that it is scientific.

I have no problem with a person saying that god got it all started, I just have a problem looking at the evidence and having somebody tell me that it's all BS because the bible says so.

[Aric2000]

And for this post, please see my tagline.

In science, you get Nowhere by labeling your ignorance as god.

In religion, if you really want to do that, great, just don't expect scientists to do it.

[Bob J]

Tonight, UNSPUN with AnnaZ and Guest Hostess DIOTIMA!

This Thursday
July 24th, 2003 ~ 10pmE/7pmP

with
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Diotima

"Of Bias and Babes"

Matthew Scheffield
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discusses SeeBS's latest scandalous behavior

and

Tom Schneider
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will discuss the latest Republican Babes
(and other less frivolous things, maybe)

Plus
as always

CRB's
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Bone-headed Lieberals

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[ALS]

yeah, look at his tagline, and know that he calls his god, "god".

lowercase g

so now we know who is god is...

[NewLand]

"could have" ...typical evo-science

Yea...and I'd love to hear the definition of 'formed'...from nothing.

[NewLand]

They want evolution to be true in the worst way, fingers, toes, and brain cells crossed.

I think it's just a self-esteem issue. Maybe a call to Dr Laura would help...

[ALS]

I think that one's "abracadabra"

maybe shazzam or presto magico

[longshadow]

yet another trollfest by the Tractionless Trolls.

[Aric2000]

Newland, why do you make such ridiculous statements as "formed from Nothing"?

Creationists are the ones that claim that we all came from "nothing" poof and we're here.

Chemicals interact, they bind to create more complex chemicals, this is a fact that you cannot get away from.

Fact of the matter is, the chemicals bind even better at high pressure and heat, so to think that chemicals may have bound and changed enough to create very rudimentary life at this depth around those chimneys is not at all beyond anything, especially when you consider the length of time involved, around 1 billion years or MORE.

You poor things, really reach for generalities.

Sometimes I feel for you, but then again, I understand the fact that you CHOOSE to be this ignorant.

[NewLand]

Where do chemicals come from?

[ALS]

God isn't nothing.

Your theory of fools is.

[Gumption]

The Discovery Channel had a special on the existence of other planets. None have been observed but they already have the size and color and location of these imaginary orbs. [Kind of like building a whole civilization out of a pig's tooth?]

How would you explain a wobbling star (sun)? The hypothesis explored on the show seemed plausible to me.

[NewLand]

In a new study, researchers speculate that a towering undersea hot-water chimney laden with microbes is just the sort of place that might have spawned SUPER-HEROES such as SuperMan, SpiderMan, and WonderWoman, also LEGENDARY FIGURES such as The Boogie Man, The Easter Bunny, and Ricochet Rabbit.

[f.Christian]

Towards the lower center half of the geologic column life forms appear fully formed ... cambrian explosion --- nothing below !

While the top layers were being formed from flooding and volcanic activity ... most of the column layers were formed from below and at the same time forming most of the above ground ... i.e., buttes - hills - mountains -- surface plate geography we see today --- not enough time for all this evolution nonsense that wouldn't be possible with unlimited time anyway --- pure fantasy- fiction !

Also ...

many times catastrophic cataclysms over a long period would have arrested the whole evolution proces making it impossible to keep starting over again !

What we really are observing is ... life and survival by design --- not accident - chance !

Evolution is an abortion ... still birth --- rag doll !

[Aric2000]

Are you REALLY asking such a question?

Honestly?

Geez, OK, back to ignore for you.

Such ignorance can ONLY be chosen, because all the facts are out there for those who are actually looking.

[ALS]

don't forget Magilla Gorilla!

[Aric2000]

I see all you can do is make fun, where is your competing hypothesis.

Oh, that's right, the hypothesis you have that COMPETES with a SCIENTIFIC hypothesis is a RELIGIOUS story out of an ancient book.

I see, since you do NOT have a competing SCIENTIFIC theory or hypothesis, you have to make fun of it instead.

Such ignorance is simply amazing.

[f.Christian]

If the history of evolution shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance globdidit.

[ALS]

"Such ignorance is simply amazing"

If you are talking about evoloonyism, not really. No more than liberalism is.