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Tech jobs leaving home
The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | Tuesday, July 15, 2003 | Rachel Konrad - THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted on 07/15/2003 8:46:20 AM PDT by Willie Green

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:03:03 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- Peter Kerrigan encouraged friends to move to Silicon Valley throughout the 1980s and '90s, wooing them with tales of lucrative jobs in a burgeoning industry.

But he lost his network engineering job at a major telecommunications company in August 2001 and remains unemployed. Now 43, the veteran programmer is urging his 18-year-old nephew to stay in suburban Chicago and is discouraging him from pursuing degrees in computer science or engineering.


(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: globalism; outsourcing; thebusheconomy
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To: Joe Brower
My wife has found out that they are pretty dang lazy on the average, also. They have the knowledge, but expect others to do the work. Cultural differences you know...
41 posted on 07/15/2003 10:23:25 AM PDT by Tin-Legions
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To: Lazamataz
We're all gonna die!!!!

Kinda like gravity, it's the law. However, some of us will die rich and some of us will die poor. I just hate it that the financial press is acting like we're on the virge of recovery. The truth is we are in the roaring 20s all over again and depression looms on the horizon.

42 posted on 07/15/2003 10:28:43 AM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: Joe Bonforte
You are so full of it!
43 posted on 07/15/2003 10:29:05 AM PDT by crazykatz
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To: Destructor
Exactly! More misinformation from the Chicken Little Club.

Mind if I bookmark this so I can say I told you so. ;o)

Oh, I forgot you'll be living in a cardboard box with no internet connection. Party on, Garth!

44 posted on 07/15/2003 10:32:57 AM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: Willie Green
Thanks for the info. I'm collecting this info for my unemployement meeting on Thursday. The unemployement office wants to discuss my job search. When they say may title on the form "System Security Administrator" they should have saved me a damn trip and let me to a phone interview.
45 posted on 07/15/2003 10:34:15 AM PDT by MelBelle
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To: Rockitz
And, some middle aged folks without health insurance will surely die before those who do.

Just lost a friend on Monday. She was laid off 2 years ago... lost her insurance.... job went to an Indian H`1B. BIG BANK took on some H1B workers... Americans... there's the door.

I am very angry1!

She had a heart condition and cut back on her meds because they were too expensive. She also worked at a pretty low paying job to replace the one she lost. This meant she had to stand and walk more than her IT job.

She was a tiny lady with a great big friendly smile.

She will be missed.

Oh, and for all you "free traitors"... looks like the social security admin. won't have to pay ANOTHER American for their retirement. I just know that all of you will be $imply delighted.

46 posted on 07/15/2003 10:41:45 AM PDT by crazykatz
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To: BushCountry
Teach CEOs to use IT strategically. Wal-Mart gets it. Amazon and eBay are built on IT. Most companies look at it as a cost - the lower the better.
47 posted on 07/15/2003 10:44:52 AM PDT by eno_
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To: Rockitz
Now, listen before you get the BOX... be sure to get some plastic to lay it on. And, one more thing... under the railroad bridges out in the middle of nowhere offer the most safety from Cops. Get a dog too. They can hunt squirrels and rats for your dinner.

Good luck... but remember, you can always use the computers at the library... no porn, OK?

: ^ )

48 posted on 07/15/2003 10:46:25 AM PDT by crazykatz
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To: MelBelle
Hey, you know what? These are scarry times ... what if the demos use all this H1b and L1 crap against Bush? Why... hitlery may just stand a chance.

GOOD GRIEF!! Where we will go then?

49 posted on 07/15/2003 10:49:28 AM PDT by crazykatz
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To: Joe Brower
The folks I worked with from India, Iran and Pakistan in the four years I spent at Qualcomm wrote some of the sorriest code I have ever had the non-privilege to witness.

I had the same experience. Four Qualcomm employees were on loan to a startup where I was also contracted. I took over responsiblity for their Java code. Arrghh! It took about a week to whip that stuff in to shape. I still wonder why the startup employed 4 people to write such a small volume of inept code. I slipped a "jython" interpreter into the code and had functionality that surpassed the "production" call processing platform.

50 posted on 07/15/2003 10:59:36 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: crazykatz
You are so full of it!

Thanks so much for your erudite response, containing such compelling logic.

Hey, I'm sorry that the truth hurts. And I'm especially sorry that so many people who claim to be lovers of freedom turn into whiners when it is their ox that's being gored.

51 posted on 07/15/2003 11:12:14 AM PDT by Joe Bonforte
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To: Rockitz
Unless you are involved in an export controlled product, work in national defense, manufacture products with a high ratio of retail price to shipping cost, or provide services to those who are left, your US-based job is evaporating before your eyes. We're talking major deflation spiral in the works. This is gonna get ugly.

Unfortunately, you're quite correct.

The base problem is management's short-term, bean-counter mentality. All most of them care about is what the quarter will look like and can they get promoted prior to the end result of their stupidity being noticed rather than delivering a good product at a good price.

Henry Ford understood that unless he paid his workers enough to be able to buy his products, his market was limited.

Short-term, the profit numbers look great. Long-term, even though the profit per widget is high, revenue tanks because of decreasing sales.

Decreasing sales force companies to drop prices to try to recover market share and revenue... in order to further reduce prices, companies do even siller things like building huge factories in China and "paying" chinese $.50 a day.

The result is what we are seeing many places in the world: a combination of deflation, relatively high unemployment and low or even negative interest rates.

52 posted on 07/15/2003 11:30:39 AM PDT by dfrussell
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To: dfrussell
Ooops. Invert that.

"manufacture products with a high ratio of retail price to shipping cost" shout be "manufacture products with a high ratio of shipping cost to retail price", i.e dog food, paper products, furniture. So it looks like:

Unless you are involved in an export controlled product, work in national defense, manufacture products with a high ratio of shipping cost to retail price, or provide services to those who are left, your US-based job is evaporating before your eyes. We're talking a major deflationary spiral in the works. This is gonna get ugly.

53 posted on 07/15/2003 1:30:20 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: Poohbah; BushCountry
Good design plus good code equals a good product. Bad design OR bad code equals bugware. Bad design AND bad code equals complete garbage.

Yes, but....how do you get good design? You have to start before that point.

(1) Understand what is the real business problem. What is the quantifiable cost of the problem? What is the cost if it is not fixed? What is the project cost of the solution? What is the operational cost of the solution?

(2) Correctly extract the solution requirements. Properly scope the solution. What's in and what's out. Document the requirements. Correctly determine the non-functional requirements.

(3) Document as use cases. Elaborate as UML.

(4) Iterate, iterate, iterate. The requirements will evolve. The prototyping will suggest alternative solutions. Priorities for feature sets will change.

And guess what -- that stuff is not done well by being outsourced to people from another culture, where cheating to pass university exams is the norm, where English is a 2nd language, where companies here have little legal recourse if the outsourced company blows the project, steals the company data and intellectual property, and sells it to industrial competitors, organized crime, and international terrorists.

Other than that, outsourcing is a great idea.

54 posted on 07/15/2003 2:50:05 PM PDT by dark_lord (The Statue of Liberty now holds a baseball bat and she's yelling 'You want a piece of me?')
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To: stanz
Reminds me of when one of the new Indian knowlege transfer guys was in the office sitting next to me...he had called our company helpdesk because his email wasn't working, he couldn' communicate to the tech on the other end, so the nice person that I am offered to help..I got on the phone and he was talking to someone from Mexico!!! Our company had just outsourced 2nd tier calls to a call center in Mexico. If only I could have had that on video. I still helped out the Indian even though he was there to take my job...
55 posted on 07/15/2003 4:20:20 PM PDT by MelBelle
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To: Willie Green
What do you think the odds of me finding another $70,000 a year IT job or my husband's hard rock band getting signed to a record deal.... probably about the same so I've decided to become his manager/promoter. Thank goodness we built our home recording studio before I lost my job! Now I just need to figure out how to create our own record lable and we'd have it made. I've been up late studying!!
56 posted on 07/15/2003 4:28:14 PM PDT by MelBelle
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To: Willie Green
Good One Willie! The other growth industry will be Tatoo Removal!
57 posted on 07/15/2003 4:42:54 PM PDT by He'sComingBack!
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To: stanz
The problem is that there is no free market, because there is no information given to consumers.
PErsonally, i would spend 10% for a good quality American product with American service.
58 posted on 07/15/2003 4:56:30 PM PDT by rmlew ("Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.")
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To: dark_lord
Then the problem will be self-limiting, won't it?
59 posted on 07/15/2003 5:21:02 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: Joe Bonforte
Those who are good and willing to learn new skills, and relocate if necessary. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE THAT I KNOW HAS A GOOD JOB.

Really? What about those who are "overqualified"? Should they learn new skills or hide them?

60 posted on 07/15/2003 5:31:47 PM PDT by A. Pole
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