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Thomas: Racial preferences unconstitutional (Thomas dissents)
Atlanta Journal- Constitution ^ | 6.23.03

Posted on 06/23/2003 3:29:45 PM PDT by mhking

WASHINGTON -- Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, the only black member of the court and an opponent of affirmative action programs, disagreed with the court's decision Monday to uphold a University of Michigan law school program that seeks to boost minority enrollment.

He agreed with the court's finding that a similar undergraduate program is unconstitutional.

"Because I wish to see all students succeed whatever their color, I share, in some respect, the sympathies of those who sponsor the type of discrimination advanced by the University of Michigan Law School," Thomas said, dissenting, in part, from the 5-4 decision upholding the law school's program.

"The Constitution does not, however, tolerate institutional devotion to the status quo in admissions policies when such devotion ripens into racial discrimination," he said.

In its majority opinion, the high court said the Constitution "does not prohibit the law school's narrowly tailored use of race in admissions decisions to further a compelling interest in obtaining the educational benefits that flow from a diverse student body."

But Thomas disagreed, and accused the law school of maintaining "an exclusionary admissions system that it knows produces racially disproportionate results."

"Racial discrimination is not a permissible solution to the self-inflicted wounds of this elitist admissions policy," he said.

Thomas agreed with the court's 6-3 conclusion that a similar undergraduate program at the University of Michigan is unconstitutional. He said a state's use of racial discrimination in higher education admissions is categorically prohibited by the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: action; affirmative; affirmativeaction; clarencethomas; court; preferences; racial; ruling; supreme; thoman; thomas
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To: mhking
What would happen if a "white" student applied for admission saying he is really "black"?

How would a school or anyone prove someone is or isn't?

Just asking.
21 posted on 06/23/2003 4:40:08 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: mhking
I mean, some "black" people look white and some "white" people look black.

So who's to say who is who?

Who's to say what black people are supposed to look like and who's to say what white people are supposed to look like?

This school can only discriminate according to race if the students comply with this racial nonsense by classifying themselves.

Let the school argue what a given student's race is, if the school thinks a given applicant who said he is white or black, the school believes to be the opposite.

How dare the school tell students what race they are because of what they look like!
22 posted on 06/23/2003 4:46:17 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Mr. Mojo
A Harvard Law Professor said the same thing on NPR this morning.
23 posted on 06/23/2003 4:46:27 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: mhking
I mean, what is the school going to say, that they don't believe a given student is really black because his nose is the wrong shape or because his hair is the wrong texture?

I'd like to see that happen!
24 posted on 06/23/2003 4:48:12 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: CyberCowboy777; Mr. Mojo
This really amounts to judging a person based on what he looks like.

So let the "white" students apply saying they are "black"--and let the school argue they lied.

What will the school say, that a student doesn't "look" "black" or doesn't talk like he is "Black"?!
25 posted on 06/23/2003 4:51:45 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Mark
Bump for the solution to weak courts and presidents!

Yours really is the grassroots way to bring the permanent racial preference industry to a halt. The Achilles’ heel of preference discrimination is that there are no real written rules as to who gets to be "African American" or "Hispanic" (there are for "Native Americans").

If EVERYONE JUST CLAIMS THE PREFERENCE CATEGORY, the system will either collapse under universal participation, or the race hustlers will have to convince the government and the courts to go into the race-assignment business a la Apartheid South Africa or Nazi Germany, using skin pigment, facial shape etc to assign folks their place.

So, if ever asked, say you are an "African-American-Hispanic".
If asked why, say "Because I say so."
If ever told you're not a member of the preference groups: Explain that your lawyer will be contacting them about why they've singled you out for scrutiny and rejection from the group based on the color of your skin, hair, last name, etc.

26 posted on 06/23/2003 4:57:02 PM PDT by dagnabbit (What was your Matricula card deal with the Mexican Govt. Mr. Bush ?)
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To: Mr. Mojo; CyberCowboy777
all people to be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin?

Yes, yes, that's just it.

What "racial prejudice" is about is classifying people according to their appearance.

This includes classifying people according to some notion of a thing called race--which, I believe, has no foundation in science, unless it's weird science of the type the Nazis espoused.

So to continue classifying people according to some vague notion of "race" merely continues the original problem.

27 posted on 06/23/2003 4:58:42 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: mhking
Racial discrimination should not be tolerated; and "affirmative action," as far as I see, is racial discrimination.

Now if a university, or an employer, wanted to discriminate between two qualified candidates by giving the slot or job to the person with lowest income, the person who most "needed" the opportunity, then I personally would have no problem with that.

This would amount to a kind of affirmative action in which blacks (being more often of lower income), would benefit disproportionately. That would be fine by me.

But for someone to move from a $40,000 job to a $45,000 job just because they're black and/or female, while an equally qualified applicant currently making $25,000, perhaps even with more dependents, is denied the job solely on the basis of race or sex, strikes me as grossly unfair.

28 posted on 06/23/2003 4:59:59 PM PDT by Luke Skyfreeper
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To: FairOpinion
"I am proud of Thomas. The other SC justices should be ashamed of themselves for selling out the Constitution to political correctness."

Full agreement here.

Does anyone have the actual vote so we would know who voted which way on both issues?

29 posted on 06/23/2003 5:00:38 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: dagnabbit
Correct. If you plan to apply to law school (note that points based racial quotas for undergraduate schooling has now been ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS) just go vacation in Puerto Rico for a couple months. Get a lot of sun. Practice the accent. Come back, dye your hair black. Give yourself a "hispanic" middle name, then go by it (J. "Ricardo" Smith.) Keep up the tan in tanning parlors. Apply and claim that you are Hispanic. If you have to defend the claim, it was your great grandfather on your mother's side. After you are accepted you can knock off the tanning (unless you like it.)

Voila. Game the system.

30 posted on 06/23/2003 5:03:22 PM PDT by dark_lord (The Statue of Liberty now holds a baseball bat and she's yelling 'You want a piece of me?')
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To: dagnabbit
yes, Yes, that's what I've been saying:

I mean, some "black" people look white and some "white" people look black.

So who's to say who is who?

Who's to say what black people are supposed to look like and who's to say what white people are supposed to look like?

This school can only discriminate according to race if the students comply with this racial nonsense by classifying themselves.

Let the school argue what a given student's race is, if the school thinks a given applicant who said he is white or black, the school believes to be the opposite.

How dare the school tell students what race they are because of what they look like!
31 posted on 06/23/2003 5:05:33 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: David Isaac
"Am I wrong? It was Reagan who nominated O'Connor? And it was Bush who nominated Souter, correct? If it was not for our friends, would we need enemies?"

Exactly right. It is the country club Republican influence. This influence is not sufficiency captured with the country club analogy, however. It is O'Connor who exemplifies what is wrong. She has been reined into a circle of consideration where the damned "balancing tests" rule supreme. Proof was presented in this case about how college administrations cannot be trusted to honestly exercise any discretion in the matter of race. if they have a little wiggle room, they will lie and claim they are only seeking "diversity" while wha thtey are really doing is employing thier quotas. There will not be any evidence available to prove that the administration has done this in any particular case. This is why BRIGHT LINE such as we have in the equal protection clause is what is needed to ensure that these institutional bigots [against white middle and lower class good students] will not do their evil for yet another generation. Bakke' effect has been pernicious. Now, there is supposedly a compelling interest for the state to "diversify their student body." That amounts to a joker card immunity to the quota bigots --if only they have the sense to half-heartedly cover their tracks.

But the Republicans are effete with regard to clashing on this point or any other points that require overt conflict. They are inveterately establishment types--which unfortunately reduces to usually going along with the perceived consensus.

Believe it or not, these so-called political types are afraid of political argument or dispute where there is actual dispute. They are intimidated by the liberal democrats who are true believers in the marxist -[and now feminist] faith and conceive themselves as soldiers for "change" menaing the presumptuous change that accords to the left's agenda and which gets imbued with an unexamined moral superiority. The country club set cannot argue so they are routinely eaten up when things get to the short hairs. Need I cite examples? Warner, Hatch, Dole, Kassenbaum, O'Connor, Anthony Kennedy, etc. We dont even have to mention Warren Rudman, Republican Senator who shamelessly pulled a n intentional and decietful scam on president of the united states: guaranteeing that Souter was a conservative when he knew damn well he was not. Shame on Pres. Bush 41 though for being such a mark. Just like he was after he won on Clarence Thomas, he tried to be a "nice guy" an dshow how "good" he was on race with his ties to Republican Negroes, and show his bona fides by agreeing to signing the otherwise stalled "civil rights restoration act" of Teddy Kennedy--which was an attempt to overturn by congress the 80's supreme court's kabosh on dispareate impact interpretations the 60's civil rights act. Bush 41 handed away a decade an da half of slow conservative progress on civil rights law, in a momentary feeling of being flushed with victory and wanting to be magnanimous. Maybe, it was a noble feeling; but it was magnaminity with our constitution and the whole idea of building a colorblind society.

32 posted on 06/23/2003 5:09:18 PM PDT by ontos-on
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To: Luke Skyfreeper
Now if a university, or an employer, wanted to discriminate between two qualified candidates by giving the slot or job to the person with lowest income, the person who most "needed" the opportunity, then I personally would have no problem with that.

Agreed. I have suggested something similar in the past as being a measure to "fix" the broken bicycle...

33 posted on 06/23/2003 5:09:21 PM PDT by mhking
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To: dark_lord; dagnabbit
No, no, dark_lord, you miss the point.

Apply looking Sweedish if that's what someone "looks" like--but putting down on the application they are a minority.

Let the school argue the student isn't because he doesn't fit some stereotype the school has of "black" people.

How dare they!
34 posted on 06/23/2003 5:11:38 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: mhking; Luke Skyfreeper
The only issue I have with that is that it's rewarding 'need'. A very socialist thing to do. When you reward success, people compete to be successful. When you reward need, people compete to be needy. In such a case instead of using 'need', why not flip a coin? The poor qualified applicant will still get in 50% of the time. No one has been discriminated against and no one has had to show 'need', only 'qualifications'.
35 posted on 06/23/2003 5:12:43 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Age of Reason
<What would happen if a "white" student applied for admission saying he is really "black"?

well, how black does one have to be? i'm mixed, my son is mixed, making him 1/4 black. i'm fair skinned and the son looks white, Mediterranean-ish (understanable w/a 1/2 greek father). depending upon your view of race, he is either mostly white (statistically correct) or since he has a drop of black blood, he is black. (the klan theory of genetics...)

when he went to college, i took the tack that there weren't any scholarships for mixed people and that he would be black for the next 4 years. as a budding conservative at the time, it might have been the moral high ground not to take their money, but i didn't make the system.

on the other hand, i also made sure that he was prepared for college and his grades and scores would have gotten him in anywhere, esp. since he was a national merit semifinalist. i was very happy to take the univ of michigan's 'black money' while he was in school. i'm sure no one looking at him would have picked him out as the 'black kid' w/the diversity scholarship.

maybe i'll burn in conservative hell for it, but that was the choice at the time.

36 posted on 06/23/2003 5:22:33 PM PDT by radiohead
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To: Black Agnes
The only issue I have with that is that it's rewarding 'need'.

I disagree - it provides the opportunity to everyone, regardless of station, and without regard for race. No guarantees; on the contrary, it opens the door for everyone. Only those who choose to show that they belong there will remain.

The soul patrol doesn't like this, because it takes them out of the equation.

37 posted on 06/23/2003 5:23:15 PM PDT by mhking
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To: Steven W.
Meaning the point at which liberals thought they'd won right before they lost.

All things being honest, I agree. The problem is, if you give liberals an inch of rope, they will find a way to hang the rest of us. This decision represents a couple feet of rope.

38 posted on 06/23/2003 5:30:34 PM PDT by RAT Patrol (Congress can give one American a dollar only by first taking it away from another American. -W.W.)
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To: mhking
"Mind you, because I've got the "nerve" to question it, I'm supposed to be the "bad guy?"

...Only because truth and reason have been thrown out the window. We're doomed.

39 posted on 06/23/2003 5:32:30 PM PDT by semaj
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To: Age of Reason
Yes, that's the whole point. We need to show that the preferences apply to everybody, and therefore to nobody.

In fact, I'm actually kind of inspired by all this --. Think I'm going to apply for some elite law schools. I started the process about 12 years ago, but did something else instead, and never mailed in the applications. My undergrad GPA (from an "elite" school) was good, however, and I scored in the 97th percentile on the LSAT. I figure with that and self-identification as an "African-American-Hispanic", I should get some offers. If I get them via the mail, I accept with a nice photo of myself included (Mom is from Holland, Dad's ancestry is German - I look accordingly). If there's an interview first, I'll figure something else out (hidden camera?)

40 posted on 06/23/2003 5:35:34 PM PDT by dagnabbit (What was your Matricula card deal with the Mexican Govt. Mr. Bush ?)
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