Posted on 06/19/2003 9:30:09 AM PDT by uplandgame
Remember the cover story "Madeleine's War" from a May 1999 TIME magazine edition? As you may recall, a popular opinion at the time was Madeleine Albright was the person the most responsible for the bombing of Serbia four years ago.
Well, think again. Without trying to exonerate or excuse Clinton's war-mongering secretary of state whose Serbo-phobia has been well documented and demonstrated, we want you to know that there may have been another woman who deserves at least part of the credit - Hillary Clinton.
The avalanche of publicity brought on by Hillary Clinton's new book, released this week, also washed up an old interview that has suddenly become very topical. Michael Savage, a national radio host, interviewed Gail Sheehy, author of a flattering Hillary biography, on December 18, 1999. Sheehy claimed in her book that it was Hillary, not "Madam Halfbright," who convinced Bill to bomb Serbia. So Savage took the author to task over that and the bogus "intelligence" upon which this bombing was "justified" to the American public.
Check out the following excerpt from the Savage interview if you want to see how Savage savaged this Hillary fan...
Excerpts from a Michael Savage December 18, 1999 radio interview with Gail Sheehy, author of the (flattering) book about Hillary Clinton, "Hillary's Choice:"
G. Sheehy: Hillary did persuade Bill Clinton to bomb in Kosovo, and what she said to him in phone calls over 48 hours from North Africa in March of ‘99: "You can’t let this ethnic cleansing go on at the end of the century that has seen the Holocaust."
M. Savage: But it turns out that was false because the original estimates of 100,000 were now reduced to 10,000 by the State Department, and yet the UN inspection team has only found 2,200 bodies. So this could turn out to be the greatest disaster of her, of her entire life.
G. Sheehy: Well, I don’t know about that. But we’re getting way, way far away from any...
M. Savage: Well, wait a minute, we’re not far away from the UN, which went to the ground, looked for the bodies, and found 2,200 dead bodies. This was one of the greatest war crimes of our age according to many international people who know that, including liberal democrats.
G. Sheehy: Well, I really don’t know what, whether, the facts have all come out. And I don’t think we will know for a while. It’s one of those ongoing stories...
M. Savage: No, it’s not. Here, wait a minute, before we go on, we can’t just say the facts don’t exist. The UN spent a lot of time looking for the mass graves. They said there were only about 2,200 bodies that were found. They don’t even know how many of those are Serbian bodies. And then just last week the State Department revised downward their 100,000 figure of dead Kosovar Albanians to 10,000 even though the UN only said 2,200. This is turning out... and I don’t think you, I don’t think you want to defend Hillary on this.
G. Sheehy: [Unintelligible] ... a small number. In any case,...
M. Savage: But does that, wait, does that justify bombing an entire nation into the stone age?
G. Sheehy: Wait, wait. We, they didn’t, they didn’t bomb it into the stone age...
M. Savage: There are no bridges left on the Danube River. The people have no heating oil; they have no food.
G. Sheehy: I’m not going to sit here and debate with you the rightness and the wrongness of the bombing in Kosovo. All I’m telling you is what I know. That’s all I can tell you.
M. Savage: But what you don’t know is that there is more to it than what you do know.
G. Sheehy: Well, Hillary and you and the American public did not know any of this at that time...
M. Savage: Yes, we did. I beg... Excuse, excuse me, Gail Sheehy, many Jewish people who had been sheltered by the Serbian people were on this program and were outraged that we were killing our allies who rescued our airmen in World War II. We got people on who were former prosecutors at Nuernberg against Hitler, on this program, liberal Democrats, going back to FDR, who were outraged at what the Clintons had done with our airplanes, giving them to NATO. So don’t say that we didn’t know. We knew it even then.
G. Sheehy: No, we didn’t know. They...
M. Savage: How can you tell us we didn’t know, when we debated it here?
G. Sheehy: Well, they didn’t have observers; they didn’t even have UN observers at that point...
M. Savage: So how did they make up a hundred thousand?
G. Sheehy: Conditions were so severe they couldn’t even keep... they pulled out the UN observers -- if you remember.
M. Savage: So how did they raise it to a hundred thousand if they didn’t know?
G. Sheehy: I don’t know. That’s the reporting that we had at that time.
M. Savage: In other words, it was propaganda that Hillary Clinton used. It was propaganda that Hillary Clinton used in order to justify the unjustifiable.
G. Sheehy: They didn’t know any better than you knew.
M. Savage: Oh, they didn’t know any better than I did, and they’re the president and his wife. So what does that say about them?
G. Sheehy: Well, what did they know about the Los Alamos spying?
M. Savage: What did they know about it? Aren’t they supposed to know about it? What the hell are they doing there?
G. Sheehy: There’s a lot of agencies, and they often don’t do their job, do they? Whether it’s the FBI or the CIA, they often don’t do their job very well.
M. Savage: Well, it sounds like you’re apologizing for every one of their mistakes.
G. Sheehy: I’m not apologizing for any of their mistakes. I’m saying to you that at the time, in March ‘99, this whole country was in a dilemna about what to do about what appeared to be a massive, minor holocaust in Kosovo.
M. Savage: Wait a minute. What do you mean "it appeared to be"? It was a complete fabrication of the KLA. It was propaganda pure and simple.
G. Sheehy: It wasn’t a complete fabrication. 10,000 people...
M. Savage: No, Mam. It was not 10,000. I just told you they only found 2,200 bodies...
G. Sheehy: But you said 10,000...
M. Savage: No, I said the State Department revised their figure from 100,000 down to 10,000, when the UN says there were only 2,200. The State Department is notorious for lying.
G. Sheehy: Alright, so there are two figures there, the 2,200 and the 10,000. That’s why the... I don’t know that the...
M. Savage: So wait a minute. Again, I don’t want to turn the whole show into that...
G. Sheehy: This is not about Hillary’s Choice. This is about your problem with Kosovo. So you can argue about...
M. Savage: No, No, but you’re...
G. Sheehy: I don’t know anything about Kosovo. Let me just put that right out there.
M. Savage: Alright, I know a lot about Kosovo...
G. Sheehy: ...Hillary convinced the president to bomb, and that’s my contribution.
M. Savage: OK.
G. Sheehy: Don’t you want to talk about the book?
M. Savage: Before we go on, I want to say this. In your book you say it was Hillary who pushed the president into bombing Kosovo, correct?
G. Sheehy: I said she convinced him to do it.
M. Savage: OK, but if it turns out that she was doing it based upon wrong information, what would that make of her in your mind?
G. Sheehy: Well, I don’t have any... I’m not going to speculate. I don’t know that you’ll ever find out what information she or the president had. Nobody ever comes up with those things. I’m not going to speculate on that.
M. Savage: But you’re speculating on the fact that Hillary did it based on good information.
G. Sheehy: I’m going to tell you this: Hillary Clinton, for her many flaws and foibles, which every human being has, is a person who, who is honest and who acts on her convictions. In this case, I believe that her conviction was that this was a massive ethnic-cleansing campaign that was killing innocent...
M. Savage: But what if it turns out it was all propaganda?
G. Sheehy: She, I don’t believe that she would have done it. Why would she want to risk the presidency doing something based on propaganda?
M. Savage: Well, yeah, let me ask you this. Have there been no other people in history who have done things, either mistakenly or on purpose, for other reasons than they appear to be doing them for?
G. Sheehy: Look, I’m not going to speculate on this. It’s just lunacy. We don’t know any more, you don’t know any more and...
M. Savage: Excuse me, you keep putting words in my mouth. I know an awful lot about Kosovo. You may know nothing about Kosovo.
G. Sheehy: ...You can’t get anything out of me because I don’t know anything more...
M. Savage: Alright, so you don’t know anything about Kosovo. I know a lot about Kosovo...
G. Sheehy: That’s great. Then you should lecture on Kosovo...
M. Savage: I have done many lectures on Kosovo. But I’m asking you how it is that Hillary Clinton could take a figure like 100,000 people, push the president into bombing Kosovo, and get away with it? Isn’t there some kind of connection between that and a massive government-media-complex cover-up? Why don’t they go there and investigate it like the UN has?
G. Sheehy: Look, they thought, like many people thought at the time, that this could not go on at the end of the century that had seen the Holocaust. That...
M. Savage: But there was no holocaust.
G. Sheehy: ...the rape of women and children because they were of a certain ethnic background...
M. Savage: OK, how about the Serbs being killed now? How about the Serbs being killed now by the Kosovar Albanians?
G. Sheehy: I don’t want to talk about this any more. If you want to talk about Hillary’s Choice, we can continue the conversation...
M. Savage: But what about the holocaust against the Serbs right now?
G. Sheehy: You know, you want me to be funny? Why don’t you let me tell a funny story.
M. Savage: I think you’re being very funny right now.
The indictment charges Milosevic with 'genocide', 'ethnic cleansing' on a scale comparable to Hitler. That makes it completly FALSE ! Not one of the 'tribunal' 130+ prosecution 'witnesses' has even come close to making the case.
You surly must know that command resposibility has not been established. To say it has, is wishfull thinking on your part, because it has not. It's ignorant on your part to prejudge the ' trial' while it is still in the 'prosecution'stage.
The only place Milosevic is going to walk will be in the exercise yard
Under guard, he is walking everyday for the last 1 1/2 years. Hitler and you are getting your revenge on the Serbs, that's where it is now. You may have power but not the truth, and truth always wins out.
An end to the specious defences of Milosevic and his actions - you've pretty much conceded the point on the command responsibility issue, DEI.
This is not about Milosevic and I think you know that. The trial will define 'what' history was and is in the balkans. The 'Kriegsschuldfrage' will be answered accordingly to the outcome of the trial. And the outcome of the trial was already determined long ago at the Pentagon, the White House, the State Departement, you name it.
Perhaps we can move on to other things, like figuring out how to rebuild the Serbian economy and integrating it into Europe.
That would be nice for a change, and as there's no end of opportunities for rancorous disagreement when it comes to economics, we could maintain our usual relationship while arguing about how to construct a better future rather than apportioning blame for a disasterous past.
Hoplite, it is my strong believe that there can't be economic, political progress and prosperity for Serbia as long as the occupation continues and the Serbs west of the Drina are denied their right to self-determination and their right to join Serbia for a new and democratic Serbian Federation. First things first. As long as you oppose this goal, for whatever reason, we will be in fundamental disagreement.
So yes, Serbia is going to go down in the history books as the bete noire of the Balkans in the 1990's - but that outcome was determined by the Serbs themselves in places like Vukovar, Srebrenica, and Racak - not in the Pentagon.
It's time for you to accept some responsibility for what Milosevic did in your name, DEI.
As to the Serbs outside of Serbia, they made their choices, and have forfeited the chance to attempt the same for at least a generation. If they still feel like joining Serbia is in their best interst in 50 years or so, and they can convince the countries they live in that it is in their best interest to go, then there is a chance they may succeed.
But I will tell you this, DEI, any attempts to change international borders through use of force will result in more of the same of what happened in the 1990's. It didn't work this time around, and it won't work in the future.
Find someone else's time to waste.
So yes, Serbia is going to go down in the history books as the bete noire of the Balkans in the 1990's - but that outcome was determined by the Serbs themselves in places like Vukovar, Srebrenica, and Racak - not in the Pentagon.
The outcome was predetermined by the 'great powers' and there will be a lot of 'revisionist' history. Unfortunately for you, I guess, but there will allways be people seeking the truth and not the Hague's version of history.
As to the Serbs outside of Serbia, they made their choices, and have forfeited the chance to attempt the same for at least a generation. If they still feel like joining Serbia is in their best interst in 50 years or so, and they can convince the countries they live in that it is in their best interest to go, then there is a chance they may succeed.
But I will tell you this, DEI, any attempts to change international borders through use of force will result in more of the same of what happened in the 1990's. It didn't work this time around, and it won't work in the future.
You miss the big picture here and I assume you do so intentionally. The first attempt to change international borders through use of force was made by the violent secession of Croatia and Bosnia, assisted by outside recognition (aggression through recognition). Only after this, the Serbs proclaimed their own secession from these illegal statelets and I repeat, they did so in response. Why do you say the Serbs should try to insist on their right to self-determination 50 years later on? What will change in 50 years? Why wasn't it possible for Croatia and Bosnia to let the Serbs go, in the same way it was possible for Yugoslavia to let Slovenia and Macedonia go? So the Serbs can exercise their right to self-determination in 50 years, why couldn't they have done that at the begining of the 1990's? That would have prevented a lot off bloodshed. But hell no, Germany and the US didn't like it? Why should the Serbs convince anyone to grant them their rights they have fought and died for, for decades and centuries? Should they ask the Neo-Ustasa's in Zagreb and the Islamofascists in Sarajevo for permission? My a$$!
But I will tell you this, DEI, any attempts to change international borders through use of force will result in more of the same of what happened in the 1990's. It didn't work this time around, and it won't work in the future.
It did work for the Ustasas and Islamofascists and this is the hypocrisy and the doublestandard I will never accept, no matter what your history books will tell.
The above is from one of your 'prosecution' witnesses at the Hague! The trial you wanted and now can't defend.
In all due respect, the trial is showing overwelmingly that Milosevic is not guilty of anything except being one of the most exceptional leader of the century. Live with it.
Thanks, but I think I'll pass.
Witness "K6" at the Milosevic Hearings made it very clear that the KLA leadership (Thaci, Selim, Mustafa, et. al) carried out a widespread campaign of murdering Albanians.
Witness 'K6' is/was a KLA member who described in detail numerous KLA killing expeditions against Albanians.
The KLA killed Albanians
15yr later ping on a day I will never forget! March 24, 1999....NATO along with the Klintons start a 78 day immoral and illegal war on Serbia
Original link not working
Can you please ping your list, thanks A
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