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The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'
the author's site ^ | 1972 | Dallas Willard

Posted on 05/23/2003 3:59:51 PM PDT by unspun

The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'
This paper has been read to the University of Southern California philosophy group and the Boston 1972 meeting of the American Philosophical Association, as well as to the Houston meeting of the Southwestern Philosophical Society. Appeared in The Southwestern Journal of Philosophy, IV(1973), pp. 125-132. Numbers in "<>" refer to this journal.

Among the principal assumptions of major portions of philosophy in recent decades have been: (1) That philosophy somehow consists of (some sort of) logic, and (2) that logic is a study of and theory about (some sort of) language. There, of course, follows from these a third assumption: (3) That philosophy is a study of and theory about (some sort of) language--though this implication should not be taken as representing any phase of the historical development of recent philosophizing. Instead of listing these three points as assumptions, it would probably be more correct to regard them as categories or complexes of assumptions; or perhaps, more vaguely still, as 'tendencies' or proclivities of recent philosophical thinking. But precision of these points need not be put in issue here, as this paper does not seek any large-scale resolution of the problem area in question.

The aim here is to examine only one proposition which plays a role in the clearly existent tendencies referred to: Namely, the proposition that we think in or with language. I hope to show, first, that we do not always think in or with language; and then, second, that the very conception of thinking in or with language involves an absurdity. What implications this has for broader philosophical assumptions or tendencies will not be dealt with here, though the implications in question seem to me to be extremely important ones.

That human beings think in language is explicitly stated in such diverse places as ordinary newspapers, the more sophisticated popular magazines and journals, and serious discourse in the humanities and the social sciences, as well as in the technical writings of philosophers. To prove this broad range of consensus would be idle; but, in order to have the philosophical context clearly before us, we may give a few brief quotations. <126> 

     (1) Man, like every living creature, thinks unceasingly, but does not know it: the thinking which becomes conscious of itself is only the smallest part thereof. And, we may say, the worst part:--for this conscious thinking alone is done in words, that is to say, in the symbols for communication, by means of which the origin of consciousness is revealed. (Nietzsche, Joyful Wisdom, sub-sec. # 354)

     (2) Let no one be contemptuous of symbols! A good deal depends upon a practical selection of them. Furthermore, their value is not diminished by the fact that after much practice, we no longer really need to call forth a symbol, we do not need to speak out loud in order to think. The fact remains that we think in words or, when not in words, then in mathematical or other symbols. (Frege, Mind, Vol. 73, p. 156)

     (3) It is misleading then to talk of thinking as of a 'mental activity'. We may say that thinking is essentially the activity of operating with signs. This activity is performed by the hand, when we think by writing; by the mouth and larynx, when we think by speaking; and if we think by imagining signs or pictures, I can give you no agent that thinks. If then you say that in such cases the mind thinks, I would only draw your attention to the fact that you are using a metaphor, that here the mind is an agent in a different sense from that in which the hand can be said to be an agent in writing. (Wittgenstein, Blue Book, pp. 6-7)

     (4) ... The woof and warp of all thought and all research is symbols, and the life of thought and science is the life inherent in symbols; so that it is wrong to say that a good language is important to good thought, merely; for it is of the essence of it. (C. S. Peirce, Collected Papers, II, p. 129)

     (5) Words only matter because words are what we think with. (H. H. Price, Aristotelian Society, Suppl. Vol. XIX, p. 7)

     (6) Theorizing is an activity which most people can and normally do conduct in silence. They articulate in sentences the theories that they construct, but they do not most of the time speak these sentences out loud. They say them to themselves.... Much of our ordinary thinking is conducted in internal monologue or silent soliloquy, usually accompanied by an internal cinematograph-show of visual imagery.... This trick of talking to oneself in silence is acquired neither quickly nor without effort.... (Ryle, Concept of Mind, p. 27. See also pp. 282-83 and 296-97) <127>

     (7)This helps to elucidate the well-known difficulty of thinking without words. Certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself. Consider the way in which I 'thinkingly' wrote the last sentence. I can no more do the 'thinking' part without the talking (or writing) part than a man can do the being graceful part of walking apart from the walking (or some equivalent activity). (J.J.C. Smart, Philosophy and Scientific Realism, p. 89)

These quotations will suffice to establish the context within which philosophers speak of thinking in language (or with language). Many other quotations could be added from the literature.1 It is not assumed here that the persons quoted all occupy the same position with reference to the relationship between thought and language. Yet it would be interesting to see what any of these thinkers, or others who suppose that human beings think in language, could save of their position from the critique which follows.

Uneasiness about the conception of thinking in or with language has been expressed by a number of writers, but only over limited aspects of it.2 Here we shall consider arguments which purport to call the conception into question entirely and in principle. First, consider a reason for rejecting the view that we always think in language. It consists in the fact that thinking often occurs without the production, manipulation, or perception of sense-perceptible signs, without which there is no use of language. Such occurrences often provoke offers of 'A penny for your thoughts.'

Thinking: Whatever we may decide to call them, and however it is that we are conscious of them, there are intentional states of persons, more or less fixed or fleeting, which do not require for their obtaining that what they are about or of be perceived by, or be impinging causally upon, the person involved. In order to think of3 Henry the Eighth, <128> of the first auto one owned, of the Pythagorean theorem, or of the Mississippi River, it is not required that they should disturb my nervous system. Such states (t-states) of persons are often called 'thoughts', especially in contrast with 'perceptions', and being in such a state is one of the things more commonly called 'thinking'. One no more needs to be going through a change of such states in order to be thinking, than he needs to be changing his bodily position in order to be sitting or lying or sleeping. Rarely if ever--as is alleged in the case of mystic contemplation--are these t-states unchanging. Usually they flow, at varying rates, intermingled with person states of many sorts, governed by such transitional structures as inference, goal orientation, objective structures given in perception or in other ways, and elemental association of 'ideas', among others. In what follows, we shall use 'thinking' to cover both the single t-state and the flow of such states, without regard to how intermingled with other person states.

Language: Sense perceptible signs or symbols are an essential constituent of language. It is always false to say that language is present or in use where no signs are present or in use. And, whatever else a sign may be, it is something which is apprehendable via its sensible qualities. That is, it is something which can be either seen, heard, felt, tasted or smelled. Moreover, the use of language requires some level of actual sensuous apprehension of the signs which are in use on the occasion. (Confusion or distortion of this sensuous feedback can render a subject incapable of writing or speaking; and, of course, without perception of the sign-sequences emitted, one cannot understand the person emitting language.)

Now cases can be produced almost at will where thinking occurs without language being present or in use. This, of course, is something which everyone--including the proponent of thinking-in-language--very well knows. It is these cases which, together with the assumption that we always think in language, create what in (7) was called "the well-known difficulty of thinking without words." If, as in (3), "thinking is essentially the activity of operating with signs," then when there are no signs--and when, consequently, the means by which we produce, manipulate, or perceive signs are not functioning--we do have a difficulty. In fact, a difficulty so severe that it amounts to a proof that thinking is not essentially the activity of operating with signs, and that often we think entirely without language. One cannot operate with signs where there are no signs. <129> 

As the above quotations indicate, the most common move made to save 'thinking in language' at this point is the shift to 'silent soliloquy,' as in (6), or to 'pieces of intelligent talking to oneself,' as in (7). These are latter-day shades of John Watson's 'sub-vocal language.' Of course one can talk to oneself or write to onself. But talking and writing to oneself require the production and perception of sensuous signs just as much as talking and writing to another. The realization of this is what drives the thinking-in-language advocate to silent soliloquy or to nonvocal speaking--the written counterpart of which would be invisible writing. That is, they are driven to flat absurdities. A silent soliloquy--that is, silent speaking--is precisely on a par with a silent trumpet solo, for example, or silent thunder. A poet may say:

       Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard

            Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;

       Not to the sensual ear, but, more endeared,

            Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone;...

               (Keats, Ode to a Grecian Urn)

But there are in fact no unhearable melodies, no ears other than the "sensual," no ditties of no tone.

What those who speak of silent discourse have in mind is, no doubt, the fact that interlaced with our thinking of or about things is a great deal of imaging of linguistic entities. (This is especially true of academics or intellectuals in general, because of their great concern with expression of thought. Probably an adequate phenomenology of thinking would exhibit great contrast between them and other classes of persons precisely at the relation between thinking and degree of activity in imaging linguistic entities and events.) But imaging a word is not using a word, any more than imaging a horse is using a horse. Moreover, imaging a word, phrase, or sentence is not producing or perceiving a word, phrase, or sentence any more than imaging a horse is producing or perceiving--or otherwise 'having'--a horse. To image a linguistic sequence is not to have it in a special sort of place--the mind--nor is it to have a special sort of linguistic sequence. To image is to exemplify a certain sort of thinking or intentional state, and a sort which does have interesting relationships with other kinds of thinking. But there is no reason at all to suppose that all kinds of thinking necessarily involve or are accompanied by this kind of thinking (imaging) directed upon language segments. And if there were, it still would not follow that all thinking requires language, since this kind of thinking about language segments is not itself language at all. Nor does it require any <130> language present in order for it to come to pass, since intentional inexistence applies to mental events when language segments are the objects, as well as when sticks and stones and animals are.

Having considered a reason for rejecting the proposition that human beings always think in language, let us now consider whether they ever do. In fact, the difficulty is not, as Smart (above) and others have thought, in seeing how one can think without language, but in seeing how one would think with it. Thinking with or in language must consist in doing something with symbols, and so necessarily involves doing something to them--e.g., producing, altering, or perceiving them. If we would do something with the knife (e.g., cut the bread), we must do something to the knife, (e.g., clasp it in our hands). But, as we have seen, thinking occurs where nothing at all is being done to or with signs, there not being any signs in these cases. The power or act of having or changing t-states--that is, the power or act of thinking--is, then, not a power or act of having or altering linguistic symbols. (It is not, in fact, a power of doing anything with or in anything at all. The profound difference in kinds of powers and acts involved here is what Wittgenstein calls attention to in the last sentence of (3) above.) Thought is, of course, practical, in that it exercises an influence upon, or makes some difference in, the world of sense particulars. But it alone is not capable of acting with the sorts of particulars used in linguistic behavior as its immediate instruments. It is just this incapacity which makes it impossible for the advocates of thinking-in-language to give any account of the mechanisms or the 'how' by which the words in which we, allegedly, think are produced, manipulated, and gotten rid of--though they must be produced (or stored and hauled out), manipulated, and, in some sense, gotten rid of, if we are to think with and in them as our tools or instruments.

Merely to ask the question of how, in detail, this is done in the course of thinking reveals, I believe, the absurdity of 'thinking in language'. Mere thinking can do nothing to signs which might be used in a language, and hence it can do nothing with such signs, or in the act of modifying the conditions of such signs. It is absurd to suppose that one can do x with y without in some way bringing about a change in the condition, state, relations, or properties of y. It is this and only this that I put by saying that it is absurd to suppose that one can do something with y while doing nothing to y.

If it is replied that, of course, the mind or thought does not do these things, but that when we write, speak, hear, see, and otherwise relate to actual words in the actual employment of language, we then are thinking, with bodily parts managing the symbols involved, then it <131> must be pointed out that, while we may indeed also be thinking in such cases, we are not simply thinking. The total event here, to which language certainly is essential, is not thinking. Correct use of language can even occur, as has been pointed out by Wittgenstein, without the occurrence of any peculiarly relevant t-states. On the other hand, thinking does occur without the use of hands, mouth, ears, eyes, fingers in any appropriately relevant manner. Hence, what can only occur by the use of these is not the same as thinking, though it may somehow involve or influence thinking.

Smart remarks in (7) that, when he thinkingly wrote the sentence, "Certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself," he could "no more do the 'thinking' part without the talking (or writing) part than a man can do the being graceful part of walking apart from the walking." This may be true of thinkingly writing the sentence (whatever that means). But it does not follow that one cannot think that certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself without the use of language, though Smart clearly thinks that it does. Of course one cannot thinkingly write without writing. But that is nothing to the point of whether or not we can and do think with or without words. Also, the comparison to graceful walking is not apt. We do, as above shown, sometimes think without words or symbols, while no cases of grace without behavior are known.

Now it is very certainly true that some processes clearly involving thinking as described above depend for their occurrence upon linguistic behavior and the sensible signs which it involves, for example, the processes of learning algebra or the history of the Basques, or learning how to counsel emotionally upset persons. But it is to be noted that these are not themselves processes of thinking, but rather are extremely complex processes involving all kinds of events and entities other than language and other than thinking--e.g., feelings, perceptions, buildings, other persons, days and nights, books, and so on. None of these processes is a process of thinking; and for that reason alone it is invalid to infer from them that thinking is linguistic behavior, or that one thinks with language. What is essential to things or events of a certain sort must be shown essential to them taken by themselves, not in combination with many other things. With reference to the involved processes in question, it might be more appropriate (though it would still be wrong) to say--as some have said in recent years--that we live in or with language. Nevertheless, it is certain that some kind of dependence relation--probably similar to feedback mechanisms--exists between linguistic processes and their sensuous signs, on the one hand, and certain sequences of t-states on the other. What, exactly, this relation <132> of dependence is continues to be veiled by, among other things, a priori assumptions about what thinking and language must be and do. One such assumption is that which holds thinking essentially to be an operation with signs or symbols, or doing something with--or in--linguistic processes or entities.

The view that we (necessarily) think without language is, today, regarded as so outlandish as not to merit serious consideration. But this is not due to a lack of arguments to support it. My object here has been to focus upon certain arguments purporting to show the absurdity of thinking in language. The main points in these arguments are: Thinking does occur without any accompanying language whatsoever, and thus shows itself not to be a power or act of managing linguistic signs, once it is clear what such a sign is. Thinking, as distinct from behavioral processes involving it, can do nothing to signs or symbols, and hence can do nothing with them.


NOTES

  1. See for example, Ramsey's Foundations of Mathematics, p. 138, and Kneale's remarks in Feigl and Sellars, Readings in Philosophical Analysis, p. 42. Return to text.
  2. See S. Morris Engel, "Thought and Language," Dialogue, Vol. 3, 1964, 160-170; Jerome Shaffer, "Recent Work on the Mind-Body Problem," American Philosophical Quarterly, Vol. II, 1965, esp. p. 83; R. Kirk, "Rationality Without Language," Mind, 1967, pp. 369-368; G. Ryle, "A Puzzling Element in the Notion of Thinking," in Studies in the Philosophy of Thought and Action, P. F. Strawson, ed., (Oxford: 1968), pp. 7-23. Interesting remarks on the issues here are also found in Bruce Aune's Knowledge, Mind and Nature, chap. VIII and H. H. Price's Thinking and Experience, Chap. X.  See also Wm. James, "Thought Before Language; A Deaf Mute's Recollections," Mind, Vol. I, 1892; and see Wittgenstein's comments on this in Philosophical Investigations, No. 342. Return to text.
  3. I use only think here, for simplicity; but think that and other structures of such intentional states (and sequences thereof) might also be mentioned. Specifically, I would also wish to hold that instances of thinking that, in the sense of inferring or puzzling something out, occur in the absence of appropriate linguistic entities or activities. Return to text.


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: consciousness; dallaswillard; epistemology; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; intelligence; intention; intentionality; language; linguistics; metaphysics; mind; ontology; psychology; semantics; semasiology; semiotics; sense; thinking; thought; willard
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To: RightWhale
Logos - word. Logic - word. Legis - word. Law - word. In the beginning, etc.

We literally can't survive without words:

In the early 18th century, Frederick the Great of Prussia, stimulated by the interest in nature and the thinking of the French philosophes, set about to try to determine what was the "natural language" of humans--what language children would speak if none were imposed on them by adults. He issued a decree that babies born to widows and unmarried women who died in child birth be brought to a special nursery he established for his research and cautioned those who had contact with the infants en route not to speak to them or to talk within the hearing of the infants. His nursery provided the best physical care that could be provided given the knowledge of his time, but the caretakers were not allowed to speak to, sing to, or otherwise communicate to the babies any language. Despite their receiving the best physical care that could be provided, all of the babies died.

Freedom and Determinism


721 posted on 05/27/2003 12:02:02 PM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: cornelis
Thank you so much for your post and for asking my favorite passage from the dialogues! It's a tough call, and not particularly on subject here, but I like Phaedrus. Especially, I like the part that begins with this:

Socrates Listen to me, then, in silence; for surely the place is holy; so that you must not wonder, if, as I proceed, I appear to be in a divine fury, for already I am getting into dithyrambics.

Phaedrus Nothing can be truer.

Socrates The responsibility rests with you. But hear what follows, and Perhaps the fit may be averted; all is in their hands above. I will go on talking to my youth. Listen: ...


722 posted on 05/27/2003 12:05:24 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: tortoise; betty boop; unspun; Alamo-Girl; tpaine; thinktwice
Well I'm certainly glad you explained this. But then, since you used language to do it, and language is grossly inadequate for expressing and communicating, I assume the explanation is grossly inaccurate, and thus I will dismiss it.

See? You don't grok (and your reasoning above is specious incidentally)

Well of course I don't understand. How could I? You said, language is grossly inadequate for expressing and communicating. Then you proceed with a long explanation using language and expect me bother trying to understand it.

If I go into the store and the first thing I tell the clerk is, "this money is not very good and of almost no value," and then expect the clerk to accept the money in payment for my purchases, I should not be surprised when he refuses?

Here you come along and tell me language is grossly inadequate for communicating and expect me to be interested in what you are trying to communicate by means of it.

I'm not interested in you "worthless" language for same reason the grocery clerk is not interested in my "worthless" money.

When you can show up with a language that is adequate for communication, completely and accurately, ring me up. In the meantime, I'm not interested.

Hank

723 posted on 05/27/2003 12:09:56 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: unspun
Thank you so much for your posts! I guess I was “copping out” by deferring to y’all, but I felt it was necessary to be clear about who I am not.

Indeed, the manifold is a part of the engine – and that is a technical meaning. Likewise, the term means something specific to mathematicians and physicist. It also has common meaning and usage as a noun, verb, adjective and adverb. That’s why I believe tortoise hit a “home run” in choosing that particular word to make his point.

724 posted on 05/27/2003 12:12:21 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Consort
Thank you for your post! Indeed, I thought that was what you were talking about - but I was bewildered by the pi example.
725 posted on 05/27/2003 12:15:02 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: cornelis; Alamo-Girl
C.S. Lewis comment "I know it's a vice, but I don't care for the company of children."

A quote that lends credence to my evaluation of C.S. Lewis' soul -- his is a human hating soul.

726 posted on 05/27/2003 12:25:38 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: Aquinasfan
Another triumph of Science!
727 posted on 05/27/2003 12:29:11 PM PDT by RightWhale (looking at shadows)
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To: thinktwice
A quote that lends credence to my evaluation of C.S. Lewis' soul -- his is a human hating soul.

I can't wish it on him. Perhaps Nietzsche's hate is a function of love.

728 posted on 05/27/2003 12:36:26 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; tortoise; unspun; tpaine; thinktwice
The debate about Platonism started long before our discussion and has been engaged by some of the most gifted minds of all time. We will not settle it here, but for Lurkers who want to know more about Platonism, ...

Just out of curiosity, what is a "gifted mind?" Most of the people others have pointed out to me as having, "gifted minds," I've discovered only have minds that did not work quite right.

For those who want to know more about Platonism, I can save them some trouble. It is an early attempt to answer some philosopohical questions. The answers Plato arrived at were mostly wrong, just as alchemy and astrology were mostly wrong. But, just as alchemy and astrology were a beginning of inquirey into those things that became chemistry and atronomy, when real knoweldge of these things was acquired. Platonism was a beginning of inquirey into those things that became philosophy, when real knoweldge of these things was acquired. Nevertheless, plato formulated some ideas which are useful to embrace if one wants to justify certain mysic superstions, and some people still believe in platonism in the same way some people still believe in astrology.

As for the rest, of course, it does not matter, because, as you say, we are incapable of comprehending Truth objectively and in fullness, therefore no language could suffice.

Since it is this "insufficient" language you have used to say what you have to say, and you are incapable of comprehending truth objectively, what you have said cannot be either objectively comprehended truth of sufficiently expressed.

Please come back when you have discovered how to objectively comprehend truth and have a language that is sufficient for expressing it.

Hank

729 posted on 05/27/2003 12:41:52 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Alamo-Girl
I am getting into dithyrambics

Is that his first speech or his second. One of them is a put-on.

730 posted on 05/27/2003 12:43:54 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: thinktwice; cornelis; Alamo-Girl
A quote that lends credence to my evaluation of C.S. Lewis' soul -- his is a human hating soul.

That gives me a smile.

He hated children so much, he wrote The Chronicles of Narnia for them.

I humbly suggest that thinking again would be healthy for you, Philus.

Try introverted; maybe INTP or INFP.

731 posted on 05/27/2003 12:45:15 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: unspun
"Man is a nasty, pride filled, and dirty creature." -- C.S. Lewis
732 posted on 05/27/2003 12:51:35 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: thinktwice; tortoise; betty boop; unspun; Alamo-Girl; tpaine
From "The Comprachicos" ...

Oh yes!

I think of this whenever I read the following:

"Most teachers are good."

Of course, that depends on what you mean by good. The money teachers are paid has been extorted from people by threat of violence against themselves and their property. The children they teach have been forcibly taken from their parents by the same method. They teach the children what the parents do not want them taught and do not teach them what the parents do want them taught. In a moral society, parties to extortion, kidnapping, and brainwashing are not usually considered good.

What do you think ought to be done to a person who molests a child in public, then proceeds to rob the child's parents as, "payment," for his services. Molestation of the mind is much worse than molestation of the body.

From: Public School Teachers, The Autonomist's Notebook

Governments Schools are "The Comprachicos".

Hank

733 posted on 05/27/2003 1:00:22 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: thinktwice
"Man is a nasty, pride filled, and dirty creature." -- C.S. Lewis

Indeed. An observation by one who loves and would have men saved from their distinct impurity.

734 posted on 05/27/2003 1:14:41 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: Hank Kerchief; tortoise; unspun; Alamo-Girl; cornelis
[tortoise to Hank]: Even if we had a perfect understanding of reality in our minds, language as we generally know it will be grossly inadequate for expressing and communicating that understanding....

[Hank to tortoise]: Well I'm certainly glad you explained this. But then, since you used language to do it, and language is grossly inadequate for expressing and communicating, I assume the explanation is grossly inaccurate, and thus I will dismiss it.

Clever boy! You provide an "object lesson" that demonstrates the reason tortoise's explanation -- "Even if we had a perfect understanding of reality in our minds, language as we generally know it will be grossly inadequate for expressing and communicating that understanding" -- is valid. That is, I do agree with what tortoise is saying here, let me make that explicit.

The reason language does not have the character you ascribe to it is communication is not a one-way street. Language will be grossly inadequate to convey the thoughts of one person to another with perfect fidelity of meaning unless the speaker and the recipient of his message possess minds that are substantially identical -- in terms of knowledge, experience, intelligence, good will, etc. That is, they must each possess an identical knowledge and experience base, and "process information" identically. If we can get conditions like that, communication will be "perfect" every time.

The point is, we never get conditions like that. At best, language is an art, not a science (so to speak).

And so you rudely dismiss tortoise for "contradicting himself" when he does no such thing. If I'm reading him right, all he's saying is for real communication to take place, more is involved than merely words; for language does not have the "objectivity" you would like to ascribe to it. Between speaker and hearer, there needs to be a certain "sympathy" (a subjective criterion), a certain good will -- and a desire in the hearer truly to understand what the speaker is saying. Absent that, there is no real communication at all.

In fact, you actually make tortoise's point for him. Language is not the "absolute" you would like to make it, Hank. And neither are your "concepts" -- er, excuse me, your "identifications."

735 posted on 05/27/2003 1:28:54 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: thinktwice
I find your response to cornelis' quote rather curious considering your previous posts. You said:

A quote that lends credence to my evaluation of C.S. Lewis' soul -- his is a human hating soul.

How do you define "soul?"

736 posted on 05/27/2003 1:34:44 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun
An observation by one who loves and would have men saved ...

Do you really think God placed rational beings on earth to disavow the use of reason?

Doesn't it make sense (given that God created the universe and gave man reason) to expect heavenly reward -- salvation -- going to those that use reason?

737 posted on 05/27/2003 1:37:20 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: cornelis
Thank you for your post!

I was speaking of the first speech of Socrates. I could believe it is tongue-in-cheek (LOL!)

738 posted on 05/27/2003 1:37:28 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
The reason language does not have the character ...

Careful, betty; for some amongst us, the use of reason is a path to Hell

739 posted on 05/27/2003 1:40:32 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: Hank Kerchief; unspun
But that kind of bright light, in this dark theatre of the absurd, is as likely to blind and confuse those who have grown accustomed to the gloom of ignorance as it is to awaken them.

Mere histrionics, Hank, "atmospherics." This statement has a "truth problem," IMHO: For one thing, I do not recognize that I live in a "dark theater of the absurd." For another, I hardly wallow in the "gloom of ignorance," let alone find it comforting when I do encounter it -- often enough, as it turns out, in other people.

740 posted on 05/27/2003 1:41:00 PM PDT by betty boop
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