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The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'
the author's site ^ | 1972 | Dallas Willard

Posted on 05/23/2003 3:59:51 PM PDT by unspun

The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'
This paper has been read to the University of Southern California philosophy group and the Boston 1972 meeting of the American Philosophical Association, as well as to the Houston meeting of the Southwestern Philosophical Society. Appeared in The Southwestern Journal of Philosophy, IV(1973), pp. 125-132. Numbers in "<>" refer to this journal.

Among the principal assumptions of major portions of philosophy in recent decades have been: (1) That philosophy somehow consists of (some sort of) logic, and (2) that logic is a study of and theory about (some sort of) language. There, of course, follows from these a third assumption: (3) That philosophy is a study of and theory about (some sort of) language--though this implication should not be taken as representing any phase of the historical development of recent philosophizing. Instead of listing these three points as assumptions, it would probably be more correct to regard them as categories or complexes of assumptions; or perhaps, more vaguely still, as 'tendencies' or proclivities of recent philosophical thinking. But precision of these points need not be put in issue here, as this paper does not seek any large-scale resolution of the problem area in question.

The aim here is to examine only one proposition which plays a role in the clearly existent tendencies referred to: Namely, the proposition that we think in or with language. I hope to show, first, that we do not always think in or with language; and then, second, that the very conception of thinking in or with language involves an absurdity. What implications this has for broader philosophical assumptions or tendencies will not be dealt with here, though the implications in question seem to me to be extremely important ones.

That human beings think in language is explicitly stated in such diverse places as ordinary newspapers, the more sophisticated popular magazines and journals, and serious discourse in the humanities and the social sciences, as well as in the technical writings of philosophers. To prove this broad range of consensus would be idle; but, in order to have the philosophical context clearly before us, we may give a few brief quotations. <126> 

     (1) Man, like every living creature, thinks unceasingly, but does not know it: the thinking which becomes conscious of itself is only the smallest part thereof. And, we may say, the worst part:--for this conscious thinking alone is done in words, that is to say, in the symbols for communication, by means of which the origin of consciousness is revealed. (Nietzsche, Joyful Wisdom, sub-sec. # 354)

     (2) Let no one be contemptuous of symbols! A good deal depends upon a practical selection of them. Furthermore, their value is not diminished by the fact that after much practice, we no longer really need to call forth a symbol, we do not need to speak out loud in order to think. The fact remains that we think in words or, when not in words, then in mathematical or other symbols. (Frege, Mind, Vol. 73, p. 156)

     (3) It is misleading then to talk of thinking as of a 'mental activity'. We may say that thinking is essentially the activity of operating with signs. This activity is performed by the hand, when we think by writing; by the mouth and larynx, when we think by speaking; and if we think by imagining signs or pictures, I can give you no agent that thinks. If then you say that in such cases the mind thinks, I would only draw your attention to the fact that you are using a metaphor, that here the mind is an agent in a different sense from that in which the hand can be said to be an agent in writing. (Wittgenstein, Blue Book, pp. 6-7)

     (4) ... The woof and warp of all thought and all research is symbols, and the life of thought and science is the life inherent in symbols; so that it is wrong to say that a good language is important to good thought, merely; for it is of the essence of it. (C. S. Peirce, Collected Papers, II, p. 129)

     (5) Words only matter because words are what we think with. (H. H. Price, Aristotelian Society, Suppl. Vol. XIX, p. 7)

     (6) Theorizing is an activity which most people can and normally do conduct in silence. They articulate in sentences the theories that they construct, but they do not most of the time speak these sentences out loud. They say them to themselves.... Much of our ordinary thinking is conducted in internal monologue or silent soliloquy, usually accompanied by an internal cinematograph-show of visual imagery.... This trick of talking to oneself in silence is acquired neither quickly nor without effort.... (Ryle, Concept of Mind, p. 27. See also pp. 282-83 and 296-97) <127>

     (7)This helps to elucidate the well-known difficulty of thinking without words. Certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself. Consider the way in which I 'thinkingly' wrote the last sentence. I can no more do the 'thinking' part without the talking (or writing) part than a man can do the being graceful part of walking apart from the walking (or some equivalent activity). (J.J.C. Smart, Philosophy and Scientific Realism, p. 89)

These quotations will suffice to establish the context within which philosophers speak of thinking in language (or with language). Many other quotations could be added from the literature.1 It is not assumed here that the persons quoted all occupy the same position with reference to the relationship between thought and language. Yet it would be interesting to see what any of these thinkers, or others who suppose that human beings think in language, could save of their position from the critique which follows.

Uneasiness about the conception of thinking in or with language has been expressed by a number of writers, but only over limited aspects of it.2 Here we shall consider arguments which purport to call the conception into question entirely and in principle. First, consider a reason for rejecting the view that we always think in language. It consists in the fact that thinking often occurs without the production, manipulation, or perception of sense-perceptible signs, without which there is no use of language. Such occurrences often provoke offers of 'A penny for your thoughts.'

Thinking: Whatever we may decide to call them, and however it is that we are conscious of them, there are intentional states of persons, more or less fixed or fleeting, which do not require for their obtaining that what they are about or of be perceived by, or be impinging causally upon, the person involved. In order to think of3 Henry the Eighth, <128> of the first auto one owned, of the Pythagorean theorem, or of the Mississippi River, it is not required that they should disturb my nervous system. Such states (t-states) of persons are often called 'thoughts', especially in contrast with 'perceptions', and being in such a state is one of the things more commonly called 'thinking'. One no more needs to be going through a change of such states in order to be thinking, than he needs to be changing his bodily position in order to be sitting or lying or sleeping. Rarely if ever--as is alleged in the case of mystic contemplation--are these t-states unchanging. Usually they flow, at varying rates, intermingled with person states of many sorts, governed by such transitional structures as inference, goal orientation, objective structures given in perception or in other ways, and elemental association of 'ideas', among others. In what follows, we shall use 'thinking' to cover both the single t-state and the flow of such states, without regard to how intermingled with other person states.

Language: Sense perceptible signs or symbols are an essential constituent of language. It is always false to say that language is present or in use where no signs are present or in use. And, whatever else a sign may be, it is something which is apprehendable via its sensible qualities. That is, it is something which can be either seen, heard, felt, tasted or smelled. Moreover, the use of language requires some level of actual sensuous apprehension of the signs which are in use on the occasion. (Confusion or distortion of this sensuous feedback can render a subject incapable of writing or speaking; and, of course, without perception of the sign-sequences emitted, one cannot understand the person emitting language.)

Now cases can be produced almost at will where thinking occurs without language being present or in use. This, of course, is something which everyone--including the proponent of thinking-in-language--very well knows. It is these cases which, together with the assumption that we always think in language, create what in (7) was called "the well-known difficulty of thinking without words." If, as in (3), "thinking is essentially the activity of operating with signs," then when there are no signs--and when, consequently, the means by which we produce, manipulate, or perceive signs are not functioning--we do have a difficulty. In fact, a difficulty so severe that it amounts to a proof that thinking is not essentially the activity of operating with signs, and that often we think entirely without language. One cannot operate with signs where there are no signs. <129> 

As the above quotations indicate, the most common move made to save 'thinking in language' at this point is the shift to 'silent soliloquy,' as in (6), or to 'pieces of intelligent talking to oneself,' as in (7). These are latter-day shades of John Watson's 'sub-vocal language.' Of course one can talk to oneself or write to onself. But talking and writing to oneself require the production and perception of sensuous signs just as much as talking and writing to another. The realization of this is what drives the thinking-in-language advocate to silent soliloquy or to nonvocal speaking--the written counterpart of which would be invisible writing. That is, they are driven to flat absurdities. A silent soliloquy--that is, silent speaking--is precisely on a par with a silent trumpet solo, for example, or silent thunder. A poet may say:

       Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard

            Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;

       Not to the sensual ear, but, more endeared,

            Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone;...

               (Keats, Ode to a Grecian Urn)

But there are in fact no unhearable melodies, no ears other than the "sensual," no ditties of no tone.

What those who speak of silent discourse have in mind is, no doubt, the fact that interlaced with our thinking of or about things is a great deal of imaging of linguistic entities. (This is especially true of academics or intellectuals in general, because of their great concern with expression of thought. Probably an adequate phenomenology of thinking would exhibit great contrast between them and other classes of persons precisely at the relation between thinking and degree of activity in imaging linguistic entities and events.) But imaging a word is not using a word, any more than imaging a horse is using a horse. Moreover, imaging a word, phrase, or sentence is not producing or perceiving a word, phrase, or sentence any more than imaging a horse is producing or perceiving--or otherwise 'having'--a horse. To image a linguistic sequence is not to have it in a special sort of place--the mind--nor is it to have a special sort of linguistic sequence. To image is to exemplify a certain sort of thinking or intentional state, and a sort which does have interesting relationships with other kinds of thinking. But there is no reason at all to suppose that all kinds of thinking necessarily involve or are accompanied by this kind of thinking (imaging) directed upon language segments. And if there were, it still would not follow that all thinking requires language, since this kind of thinking about language segments is not itself language at all. Nor does it require any <130> language present in order for it to come to pass, since intentional inexistence applies to mental events when language segments are the objects, as well as when sticks and stones and animals are.

Having considered a reason for rejecting the proposition that human beings always think in language, let us now consider whether they ever do. In fact, the difficulty is not, as Smart (above) and others have thought, in seeing how one can think without language, but in seeing how one would think with it. Thinking with or in language must consist in doing something with symbols, and so necessarily involves doing something to them--e.g., producing, altering, or perceiving them. If we would do something with the knife (e.g., cut the bread), we must do something to the knife, (e.g., clasp it in our hands). But, as we have seen, thinking occurs where nothing at all is being done to or with signs, there not being any signs in these cases. The power or act of having or changing t-states--that is, the power or act of thinking--is, then, not a power or act of having or altering linguistic symbols. (It is not, in fact, a power of doing anything with or in anything at all. The profound difference in kinds of powers and acts involved here is what Wittgenstein calls attention to in the last sentence of (3) above.) Thought is, of course, practical, in that it exercises an influence upon, or makes some difference in, the world of sense particulars. But it alone is not capable of acting with the sorts of particulars used in linguistic behavior as its immediate instruments. It is just this incapacity which makes it impossible for the advocates of thinking-in-language to give any account of the mechanisms or the 'how' by which the words in which we, allegedly, think are produced, manipulated, and gotten rid of--though they must be produced (or stored and hauled out), manipulated, and, in some sense, gotten rid of, if we are to think with and in them as our tools or instruments.

Merely to ask the question of how, in detail, this is done in the course of thinking reveals, I believe, the absurdity of 'thinking in language'. Mere thinking can do nothing to signs which might be used in a language, and hence it can do nothing with such signs, or in the act of modifying the conditions of such signs. It is absurd to suppose that one can do x with y without in some way bringing about a change in the condition, state, relations, or properties of y. It is this and only this that I put by saying that it is absurd to suppose that one can do something with y while doing nothing to y.

If it is replied that, of course, the mind or thought does not do these things, but that when we write, speak, hear, see, and otherwise relate to actual words in the actual employment of language, we then are thinking, with bodily parts managing the symbols involved, then it <131> must be pointed out that, while we may indeed also be thinking in such cases, we are not simply thinking. The total event here, to which language certainly is essential, is not thinking. Correct use of language can even occur, as has been pointed out by Wittgenstein, without the occurrence of any peculiarly relevant t-states. On the other hand, thinking does occur without the use of hands, mouth, ears, eyes, fingers in any appropriately relevant manner. Hence, what can only occur by the use of these is not the same as thinking, though it may somehow involve or influence thinking.

Smart remarks in (7) that, when he thinkingly wrote the sentence, "Certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself," he could "no more do the 'thinking' part without the talking (or writing) part than a man can do the being graceful part of walking apart from the walking." This may be true of thinkingly writing the sentence (whatever that means). But it does not follow that one cannot think that certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself without the use of language, though Smart clearly thinks that it does. Of course one cannot thinkingly write without writing. But that is nothing to the point of whether or not we can and do think with or without words. Also, the comparison to graceful walking is not apt. We do, as above shown, sometimes think without words or symbols, while no cases of grace without behavior are known.

Now it is very certainly true that some processes clearly involving thinking as described above depend for their occurrence upon linguistic behavior and the sensible signs which it involves, for example, the processes of learning algebra or the history of the Basques, or learning how to counsel emotionally upset persons. But it is to be noted that these are not themselves processes of thinking, but rather are extremely complex processes involving all kinds of events and entities other than language and other than thinking--e.g., feelings, perceptions, buildings, other persons, days and nights, books, and so on. None of these processes is a process of thinking; and for that reason alone it is invalid to infer from them that thinking is linguistic behavior, or that one thinks with language. What is essential to things or events of a certain sort must be shown essential to them taken by themselves, not in combination with many other things. With reference to the involved processes in question, it might be more appropriate (though it would still be wrong) to say--as some have said in recent years--that we live in or with language. Nevertheless, it is certain that some kind of dependence relation--probably similar to feedback mechanisms--exists between linguistic processes and their sensuous signs, on the one hand, and certain sequences of t-states on the other. What, exactly, this relation <132> of dependence is continues to be veiled by, among other things, a priori assumptions about what thinking and language must be and do. One such assumption is that which holds thinking essentially to be an operation with signs or symbols, or doing something with--or in--linguistic processes or entities.

The view that we (necessarily) think without language is, today, regarded as so outlandish as not to merit serious consideration. But this is not due to a lack of arguments to support it. My object here has been to focus upon certain arguments purporting to show the absurdity of thinking in language. The main points in these arguments are: Thinking does occur without any accompanying language whatsoever, and thus shows itself not to be a power or act of managing linguistic signs, once it is clear what such a sign is. Thinking, as distinct from behavioral processes involving it, can do nothing to signs or symbols, and hence can do nothing with them.


NOTES

  1. See for example, Ramsey's Foundations of Mathematics, p. 138, and Kneale's remarks in Feigl and Sellars, Readings in Philosophical Analysis, p. 42. Return to text.
  2. See S. Morris Engel, "Thought and Language," Dialogue, Vol. 3, 1964, 160-170; Jerome Shaffer, "Recent Work on the Mind-Body Problem," American Philosophical Quarterly, Vol. II, 1965, esp. p. 83; R. Kirk, "Rationality Without Language," Mind, 1967, pp. 369-368; G. Ryle, "A Puzzling Element in the Notion of Thinking," in Studies in the Philosophy of Thought and Action, P. F. Strawson, ed., (Oxford: 1968), pp. 7-23. Interesting remarks on the issues here are also found in Bruce Aune's Knowledge, Mind and Nature, chap. VIII and H. H. Price's Thinking and Experience, Chap. X.  See also Wm. James, "Thought Before Language; A Deaf Mute's Recollections," Mind, Vol. I, 1892; and see Wittgenstein's comments on this in Philosophical Investigations, No. 342. Return to text.
  3. I use only think here, for simplicity; but think that and other structures of such intentional states (and sequences thereof) might also be mentioned. Specifically, I would also wish to hold that instances of thinking that, in the sense of inferring or puzzling something out, occur in the absence of appropriate linguistic entities or activities. Return to text.


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: consciousness; dallaswillard; epistemology; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; intelligence; intention; intentionality; language; linguistics; metaphysics; mind; ontology; psychology; semantics; semasiology; semiotics; sense; thinking; thought; willard
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To: unspun; thinktwice; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; tortoise; Consort; donh; D-fendr; Kudsman
...more essential (as Dallas Willard poined out) than strict rational conceptualization.

Well, it's either rational conceptualization or irrational conceptualization.

So, "ya pays yer money and makes yer choice". (--Charlie Allnut, The African Queen)

Hank

561 posted on 05/26/2003 1:26:24 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
Well, it's either rational conceptualization or irrational conceptualization.

Is Santa Claus flying down every chimney in the world to deliver toys a rational, or an irrational conceptualization? If the latter, do you think this irrational conceptualization is of no use or value to parents of small children?

562 posted on 05/26/2003 1:30:08 PM PDT by donh (/)
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To: thinktwice
Focusing on reality works, nothing else makes sense.

Post #562--same question to you.

563 posted on 05/26/2003 1:32:46 PM PDT by donh (/)
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To: Hank Kerchief; unspun
There is no consciousness of "sensations" themselves. It is not philosophy, but science that supposes the nervous system provides "sensory data" to the brain, but there is no direct consciousness of such data. There is only perceptual consciousness, that is, we are only conscious of "percepts," such as patches of color, the perception of pain, sounds, etc.

By experience I know that any rearranging of the very real position of my skin and bones results in pain. By observation I know that a bullet does a lot of rearranging. Therefore when I hear a shot I think AND duck immediately. Failure to do this by first stopping to conceptualize what is happening runs the risk of my being rearranged and people saying "the poor fool never knew what hit him."

BTW I love the concept of varying colors. Does it somehow symbolize differing languages? Hmmm.

564 posted on 05/26/2003 1:33:31 PM PDT by Kudsman (LETS GET IT ON!!! The price of freedom is vigilance. Tyranny is free of charge.)
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To: unspun
Thank you so much for your posts! I particularly like this:

In so doing, we are not really testing Reality, we are testing ourselves by it (through the use of all our faculties, certainly including those which operate our conceptual aspects. That is under-standing. Said elsewhere, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom."

Indeed. We test ourselves by comprehension of Reality; IMHO, when we become aware of our feeble ability then we are open to understanding. Praise God!!!

565 posted on 05/26/2003 1:36:38 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
IOW, I suspect that information theory may hold the key for a whole new kind of physics that several physicists believe is needed to resolve the issues between quantum and classical (Schrodinger?s cat, observation paradox, violations of Bell?s inequalities at distance, quantum gravity and time, dark energy, etc.)

I've asserted that information theory is the key to understanding the underlying fundamentals of physics (the "why" of everything) for some time, and there have been a small cadre of others that agree. The problem has actually been that our understanding of information theory was really inadequate for the task; much of information theory has traditionally focused on coding theory and similar which is a largely irrelevant tangent, and the core body of the mathematics has developed slowly as a result. Recently, substantial progress been made in the core field. As we continue to break new ground in information theory it is becoming increasingly clear that it is an incredibly important fundamental for explaining the underlying nature of the universe. With respect to the real world, it probably has more explanatory power than any other field of mathematics but it is a field that we know relatively little about.

I personally believe we are on the verge of a small theoretical renaissance where we will start to look at a great many things from a purely information theoretic viewpoint. Information theory can do a LOT more than what most people have been exposed to.

566 posted on 05/26/2003 1:38:00 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: Alamo-Girl
You aren't really addressing the 'expert view' though, in your reply on math theory, etc. -- I repeat;

"The view that symbols exist apart from individual consciousness is revisionistic nonsense, according to experts."


It may be that you confuse individual consciousness with observable fact. And indeed, doesn't quantum theory say that the act of observation changes fact?



567 posted on 05/26/2003 1:38:55 PM PDT by tpaine (Really, I'm trying to be a 'decent human being', but me flesh is weak.,)
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To: Hank Kerchief
To say that reason as logic is not the only important aspect of how we relate with other, including how we relate what we may in various ways sense, understand, and know -- nor even the very most essentialt aspect, is not irrationality. Reason should tell you this.

And puns don't make for a good foundation.

Irrationality is not the only thing that is not reason. To say so is a fallacy.

Do we need to post more definitions of words? And have you read that thread about modernist dualism? (It is good to read what is good to read.) ;-`
568 posted on 05/26/2003 1:39:15 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: donh
It's not hard to do--it's all to easy to do. It's just really, really hard on us, from time to time, when we entirely trust the results.

What I meant was that in the real world, people use rather arbitrary Bayesian "truths" as axioms. Given that, it is not surprising that the induction doesn't work that well in the real world. Garbage in, garbage out.

569 posted on 05/26/2003 1:42:36 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: thinktwice
Focusing on reality works, nothing else makes sense.

Unfortunately, "reality" and its behaviors tends to vary depending on which observer you ask. A problem, that.

570 posted on 05/26/2003 1:44:53 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: unspun
"Irrationality is not the only thing that is not reason. To say so is a fallacy."
-unspun-


Is it not an fallacy of reason to claim that only that which we can reason out exists?





571 posted on 05/26/2003 1:51:40 PM PDT by tpaine (Really, I'm trying to be a 'decent human being', but me flesh is weak.,)
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To: tortoise
Thank you so very much for your post!

As we continue to break new ground in information theory it is becoming increasingly clear that it is an incredibly important fundamental for explaining the underlying nature of the universe. With respect to the real world, it probably has more explanatory power than any other field of mathematics but it is a field that we know relatively little about.

It is so overarching to me that I have to remind myself when I read quantum field theory that the discipline has not been honed by information theorists (yet.)

I am delighted to hear your field is refocusing on its core.

I personally believe we are on the verge of a small theoretical renaissance where we will start to look at a great many things from a purely information theoretic viewpoint. Information theory can do a LOT more than what most people have been exposed to.

Ok, I can't resist it .... Yeehaw!

572 posted on 05/26/2003 1:54:35 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: tpaine
Thank you for your post!

No, I am not confused. Quantum field theory is not the same as quantum mechanics. The observation paradox is quantum mechanics, quantum field theory is more fundamental than that.

573 posted on 05/26/2003 1:57:39 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: donh
Is Santa Claus flying down every chimney in the world to deliver toys a rational, or an irrational conceptualization?

Conceptualization can be based in reality, mysticism or mindless insanity.

I consider concepts based in reality rational; and those based in anythihg other than reality, irrational.

The concept of Santa Clause is a non-dangerouse, mythical comcept; whereas concepts about God are mystical concepts that sometimes prove to be harmful to human life.

574 posted on 05/26/2003 2:02:20 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: Kudsman; All; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Lorianne; DaughterofEve; nicmarlo; RnMomof7; chicagolady; ...
Anyone help? Looking for Helen Keller... ( .) ( .)

(* ) (* )

Do people that think in different languages think more than single language folks? Kind of a je ne sais quoi? If you know what I mean.

Thanks Kudsman, I have quite a few languages, though only understand the English spoken tonguee. ;-` (Well, maybe that's not quite true; sometimes I speak with "Amber" the pooch in her tongue.) I think that folks with multiple languages have more in their grasp. It is the grasping and what is grasped, so to speak, that is important, eh? However little we know of language. What do you think?

BTW, it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere in this thread to my knowledge, but a great, great exemplar of Dallas Willard's position is Hellen Keller (though one needn't take extreme measures to roughly but effictively measure thinking).

Hellen Keller ping here --- anyone read any of her works (wouldn't have to be ladies, but more probable)? If so and you know and don't mind to show: what did she say about her thinking before language? (I remember it being said that she was aware of God --pinging WT, too, for that.)

575 posted on 05/26/2003 2:07:24 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: Alamo-Girl
You aren't really addressing the 'expert view' though, in your reply on math theory, etc. -- I repeat;

"The view that symbols exist apart from individual consciousness is revisionistic nonsense, according to experts."

Please, can you explain further?
576 posted on 05/26/2003 2:07:43 PM PDT by tpaine (Really, I'm trying to be a 'decent human being', but me flesh is weak.,)
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To: tpaine
Is it not an fallacy of reason to claim that only that which we can reason out exists?

Well, hello. I would say it is a fallacy of false premise to claim that only that which I can know by reason exists, since there are many things of which I am not informed and thus cannot know.

577 posted on 05/26/2003 2:17:40 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: unspun; Alamo-Girl
Thanks for the ping! I've enjoyed following this but can't contribute much because

My diction is a fiction
Incoherent at its best
From where I stand it's 'Wonderland'
And it fails to pass the test
But give me time for thoughts sublime
And in my mind immersed
For the truth for me is hard to see
'Cause everything's reversed!

Heh heh. Well, let me offer this concerning the passing of time. Look at an hourglass and consider that the top is the future, the bottom as the past and the center point the 'NOW.' Time doesn't march on. It flows from the future (the realm of thoughts)into the 'Now,'where thoughts become manifest as energy in motion (the quantum, the material world) and disappears into what we assume is the past, never to be seen or measured again . . . unless someone turns the hour-glass over. (g)

So does time flow from the past into the future, as we have all imagined? Or does time flow from the future into the past? Doesn't thinking (which cannot be measured or observed) precede an event in the material world (which can be measured)? For what is 'matter' but energy in motion? Isn't the precession of thought or thinking necessary for things to take on movement? If so, then, wouldn't this state the case for including the realm of thought (and the Thinker) in the definition of 'reality?' The same reality -- just different aspects.

I think the truth of this can be proven by using a functional equation to understand the triune nature of things:

The past issues from the future through the present. Events issue from the Thinker through the thought.

In the quantum, time itself issues as a result of energy in motion through space. (Don't forget that time is really a measurement of distance, relatively speaking.)

Space itself is a triunity. Having three and only three infinite directions. How convenient! Now we can place three-dimensional objects in space without crowding out the universe with one object, as material objects have finite dimensions. Nice! Now we have room to roam around and inspect the nature of the objects.

But why should the universe of time, space and matter have only three primary aspects? It may be because it is a reflection of the mind that created it. Herein may be the clue to what the totality of reality IS.

Please all me to submit:

In religious terms, God is three in one, according to many beliefs, Islam being an exception. Father, Son, and The Holy Spirit. Can God be measured in finite terms? Can we say that God is 1+1+1=3? Didn't think so. How about in infinite terms, which would include the totality of all things seen and unseen?

What would be the equation for measuring the volume of a cube? The cube, in this instance, representing the totality of all things. Simple answer: 1x1x1=1.

If you will allow, The Father, times the Son, times the Holy Spirit equals the totality of God. All aspects of the same God, for God is One.

Then wouldn't it be fair to say that all things exist in the mind of God, for nothing exists outside of God for there is no outside of God? If so, then wouldn't it be logical to regard everything that was, is, and whatever shall be to ever exist in the mind of God?

If God is a triunity, it should make sense to see that all things created are a reflection of that triunity. A triune universe in the mind of the triunity of God. Is mankind a triune creation with similar aspects of its Creator and destined to be in the same 'image and likeness?' As for me, I hope so, for that is how I describe my personal reality.

I apologize if this is off the scholastic path here.

578 posted on 05/26/2003 2:19:51 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: thinktwice
The concept of Santa Clause is a non-dangerouse, mythical comcept; whereas concepts about God are mystical concepts that sometimes prove to be harmful to human life.

How mystical was it for the disciples of Christ to see him come into their room through the wall, then ascend into Heaven?

How harmful was it to the man inhabited by a "legion" of demons to have them cast out?

How safe have been the philosophies on earth this last century, which have denied by their reason (or whatever other means) the existence of God?

579 posted on 05/26/2003 2:22:46 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: thinktwice
I offer a slightly different take on it:

1. Reality is that which exists.
And what ceases to exist and newly emerges and constantly changes.

2. Reason is the standard (man's tool) for knowing reality.
Consciousness and awareness will let you know what is there in addition to reason. Reason is an attempt to understand and make judgements about what we know.

3. Truth is the recognition of reality.
That seems to be implied in your #2 above.
Understanding is the comprehension of the things we know, why they are so, and how they are related.

4. Knowledge is a treasure chest collection of "truth" held within an individual's mind.
It is the collection of facts as we believe them to be, subject to change at any time.

580 posted on 05/26/2003 2:25:28 PM PDT by Consort
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