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The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'
the author's site ^ | 1972 | Dallas Willard

Posted on 05/23/2003 3:59:51 PM PDT by unspun

The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'
This paper has been read to the University of Southern California philosophy group and the Boston 1972 meeting of the American Philosophical Association, as well as to the Houston meeting of the Southwestern Philosophical Society. Appeared in The Southwestern Journal of Philosophy, IV(1973), pp. 125-132. Numbers in "<>" refer to this journal.

Among the principal assumptions of major portions of philosophy in recent decades have been: (1) That philosophy somehow consists of (some sort of) logic, and (2) that logic is a study of and theory about (some sort of) language. There, of course, follows from these a third assumption: (3) That philosophy is a study of and theory about (some sort of) language--though this implication should not be taken as representing any phase of the historical development of recent philosophizing. Instead of listing these three points as assumptions, it would probably be more correct to regard them as categories or complexes of assumptions; or perhaps, more vaguely still, as 'tendencies' or proclivities of recent philosophical thinking. But precision of these points need not be put in issue here, as this paper does not seek any large-scale resolution of the problem area in question.

The aim here is to examine only one proposition which plays a role in the clearly existent tendencies referred to: Namely, the proposition that we think in or with language. I hope to show, first, that we do not always think in or with language; and then, second, that the very conception of thinking in or with language involves an absurdity. What implications this has for broader philosophical assumptions or tendencies will not be dealt with here, though the implications in question seem to me to be extremely important ones.

That human beings think in language is explicitly stated in such diverse places as ordinary newspapers, the more sophisticated popular magazines and journals, and serious discourse in the humanities and the social sciences, as well as in the technical writings of philosophers. To prove this broad range of consensus would be idle; but, in order to have the philosophical context clearly before us, we may give a few brief quotations. <126> 

     (1) Man, like every living creature, thinks unceasingly, but does not know it: the thinking which becomes conscious of itself is only the smallest part thereof. And, we may say, the worst part:--for this conscious thinking alone is done in words, that is to say, in the symbols for communication, by means of which the origin of consciousness is revealed. (Nietzsche, Joyful Wisdom, sub-sec. # 354)

     (2) Let no one be contemptuous of symbols! A good deal depends upon a practical selection of them. Furthermore, their value is not diminished by the fact that after much practice, we no longer really need to call forth a symbol, we do not need to speak out loud in order to think. The fact remains that we think in words or, when not in words, then in mathematical or other symbols. (Frege, Mind, Vol. 73, p. 156)

     (3) It is misleading then to talk of thinking as of a 'mental activity'. We may say that thinking is essentially the activity of operating with signs. This activity is performed by the hand, when we think by writing; by the mouth and larynx, when we think by speaking; and if we think by imagining signs or pictures, I can give you no agent that thinks. If then you say that in such cases the mind thinks, I would only draw your attention to the fact that you are using a metaphor, that here the mind is an agent in a different sense from that in which the hand can be said to be an agent in writing. (Wittgenstein, Blue Book, pp. 6-7)

     (4) ... The woof and warp of all thought and all research is symbols, and the life of thought and science is the life inherent in symbols; so that it is wrong to say that a good language is important to good thought, merely; for it is of the essence of it. (C. S. Peirce, Collected Papers, II, p. 129)

     (5) Words only matter because words are what we think with. (H. H. Price, Aristotelian Society, Suppl. Vol. XIX, p. 7)

     (6) Theorizing is an activity which most people can and normally do conduct in silence. They articulate in sentences the theories that they construct, but they do not most of the time speak these sentences out loud. They say them to themselves.... Much of our ordinary thinking is conducted in internal monologue or silent soliloquy, usually accompanied by an internal cinematograph-show of visual imagery.... This trick of talking to oneself in silence is acquired neither quickly nor without effort.... (Ryle, Concept of Mind, p. 27. See also pp. 282-83 and 296-97) <127>

     (7)This helps to elucidate the well-known difficulty of thinking without words. Certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself. Consider the way in which I 'thinkingly' wrote the last sentence. I can no more do the 'thinking' part without the talking (or writing) part than a man can do the being graceful part of walking apart from the walking (or some equivalent activity). (J.J.C. Smart, Philosophy and Scientific Realism, p. 89)

These quotations will suffice to establish the context within which philosophers speak of thinking in language (or with language). Many other quotations could be added from the literature.1 It is not assumed here that the persons quoted all occupy the same position with reference to the relationship between thought and language. Yet it would be interesting to see what any of these thinkers, or others who suppose that human beings think in language, could save of their position from the critique which follows.

Uneasiness about the conception of thinking in or with language has been expressed by a number of writers, but only over limited aspects of it.2 Here we shall consider arguments which purport to call the conception into question entirely and in principle. First, consider a reason for rejecting the view that we always think in language. It consists in the fact that thinking often occurs without the production, manipulation, or perception of sense-perceptible signs, without which there is no use of language. Such occurrences often provoke offers of 'A penny for your thoughts.'

Thinking: Whatever we may decide to call them, and however it is that we are conscious of them, there are intentional states of persons, more or less fixed or fleeting, which do not require for their obtaining that what they are about or of be perceived by, or be impinging causally upon, the person involved. In order to think of3 Henry the Eighth, <128> of the first auto one owned, of the Pythagorean theorem, or of the Mississippi River, it is not required that they should disturb my nervous system. Such states (t-states) of persons are often called 'thoughts', especially in contrast with 'perceptions', and being in such a state is one of the things more commonly called 'thinking'. One no more needs to be going through a change of such states in order to be thinking, than he needs to be changing his bodily position in order to be sitting or lying or sleeping. Rarely if ever--as is alleged in the case of mystic contemplation--are these t-states unchanging. Usually they flow, at varying rates, intermingled with person states of many sorts, governed by such transitional structures as inference, goal orientation, objective structures given in perception or in other ways, and elemental association of 'ideas', among others. In what follows, we shall use 'thinking' to cover both the single t-state and the flow of such states, without regard to how intermingled with other person states.

Language: Sense perceptible signs or symbols are an essential constituent of language. It is always false to say that language is present or in use where no signs are present or in use. And, whatever else a sign may be, it is something which is apprehendable via its sensible qualities. That is, it is something which can be either seen, heard, felt, tasted or smelled. Moreover, the use of language requires some level of actual sensuous apprehension of the signs which are in use on the occasion. (Confusion or distortion of this sensuous feedback can render a subject incapable of writing or speaking; and, of course, without perception of the sign-sequences emitted, one cannot understand the person emitting language.)

Now cases can be produced almost at will where thinking occurs without language being present or in use. This, of course, is something which everyone--including the proponent of thinking-in-language--very well knows. It is these cases which, together with the assumption that we always think in language, create what in (7) was called "the well-known difficulty of thinking without words." If, as in (3), "thinking is essentially the activity of operating with signs," then when there are no signs--and when, consequently, the means by which we produce, manipulate, or perceive signs are not functioning--we do have a difficulty. In fact, a difficulty so severe that it amounts to a proof that thinking is not essentially the activity of operating with signs, and that often we think entirely without language. One cannot operate with signs where there are no signs. <129> 

As the above quotations indicate, the most common move made to save 'thinking in language' at this point is the shift to 'silent soliloquy,' as in (6), or to 'pieces of intelligent talking to oneself,' as in (7). These are latter-day shades of John Watson's 'sub-vocal language.' Of course one can talk to oneself or write to onself. But talking and writing to oneself require the production and perception of sensuous signs just as much as talking and writing to another. The realization of this is what drives the thinking-in-language advocate to silent soliloquy or to nonvocal speaking--the written counterpart of which would be invisible writing. That is, they are driven to flat absurdities. A silent soliloquy--that is, silent speaking--is precisely on a par with a silent trumpet solo, for example, or silent thunder. A poet may say:

       Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard

            Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;

       Not to the sensual ear, but, more endeared,

            Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone;...

               (Keats, Ode to a Grecian Urn)

But there are in fact no unhearable melodies, no ears other than the "sensual," no ditties of no tone.

What those who speak of silent discourse have in mind is, no doubt, the fact that interlaced with our thinking of or about things is a great deal of imaging of linguistic entities. (This is especially true of academics or intellectuals in general, because of their great concern with expression of thought. Probably an adequate phenomenology of thinking would exhibit great contrast between them and other classes of persons precisely at the relation between thinking and degree of activity in imaging linguistic entities and events.) But imaging a word is not using a word, any more than imaging a horse is using a horse. Moreover, imaging a word, phrase, or sentence is not producing or perceiving a word, phrase, or sentence any more than imaging a horse is producing or perceiving--or otherwise 'having'--a horse. To image a linguistic sequence is not to have it in a special sort of place--the mind--nor is it to have a special sort of linguistic sequence. To image is to exemplify a certain sort of thinking or intentional state, and a sort which does have interesting relationships with other kinds of thinking. But there is no reason at all to suppose that all kinds of thinking necessarily involve or are accompanied by this kind of thinking (imaging) directed upon language segments. And if there were, it still would not follow that all thinking requires language, since this kind of thinking about language segments is not itself language at all. Nor does it require any <130> language present in order for it to come to pass, since intentional inexistence applies to mental events when language segments are the objects, as well as when sticks and stones and animals are.

Having considered a reason for rejecting the proposition that human beings always think in language, let us now consider whether they ever do. In fact, the difficulty is not, as Smart (above) and others have thought, in seeing how one can think without language, but in seeing how one would think with it. Thinking with or in language must consist in doing something with symbols, and so necessarily involves doing something to them--e.g., producing, altering, or perceiving them. If we would do something with the knife (e.g., cut the bread), we must do something to the knife, (e.g., clasp it in our hands). But, as we have seen, thinking occurs where nothing at all is being done to or with signs, there not being any signs in these cases. The power or act of having or changing t-states--that is, the power or act of thinking--is, then, not a power or act of having or altering linguistic symbols. (It is not, in fact, a power of doing anything with or in anything at all. The profound difference in kinds of powers and acts involved here is what Wittgenstein calls attention to in the last sentence of (3) above.) Thought is, of course, practical, in that it exercises an influence upon, or makes some difference in, the world of sense particulars. But it alone is not capable of acting with the sorts of particulars used in linguistic behavior as its immediate instruments. It is just this incapacity which makes it impossible for the advocates of thinking-in-language to give any account of the mechanisms or the 'how' by which the words in which we, allegedly, think are produced, manipulated, and gotten rid of--though they must be produced (or stored and hauled out), manipulated, and, in some sense, gotten rid of, if we are to think with and in them as our tools or instruments.

Merely to ask the question of how, in detail, this is done in the course of thinking reveals, I believe, the absurdity of 'thinking in language'. Mere thinking can do nothing to signs which might be used in a language, and hence it can do nothing with such signs, or in the act of modifying the conditions of such signs. It is absurd to suppose that one can do x with y without in some way bringing about a change in the condition, state, relations, or properties of y. It is this and only this that I put by saying that it is absurd to suppose that one can do something with y while doing nothing to y.

If it is replied that, of course, the mind or thought does not do these things, but that when we write, speak, hear, see, and otherwise relate to actual words in the actual employment of language, we then are thinking, with bodily parts managing the symbols involved, then it <131> must be pointed out that, while we may indeed also be thinking in such cases, we are not simply thinking. The total event here, to which language certainly is essential, is not thinking. Correct use of language can even occur, as has been pointed out by Wittgenstein, without the occurrence of any peculiarly relevant t-states. On the other hand, thinking does occur without the use of hands, mouth, ears, eyes, fingers in any appropriately relevant manner. Hence, what can only occur by the use of these is not the same as thinking, though it may somehow involve or influence thinking.

Smart remarks in (7) that, when he thinkingly wrote the sentence, "Certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself," he could "no more do the 'thinking' part without the talking (or writing) part than a man can do the being graceful part of walking apart from the walking." This may be true of thinkingly writing the sentence (whatever that means). But it does not follow that one cannot think that certain kinds of thinking are pieces of intelligent talking to oneself without the use of language, though Smart clearly thinks that it does. Of course one cannot thinkingly write without writing. But that is nothing to the point of whether or not we can and do think with or without words. Also, the comparison to graceful walking is not apt. We do, as above shown, sometimes think without words or symbols, while no cases of grace without behavior are known.

Now it is very certainly true that some processes clearly involving thinking as described above depend for their occurrence upon linguistic behavior and the sensible signs which it involves, for example, the processes of learning algebra or the history of the Basques, or learning how to counsel emotionally upset persons. But it is to be noted that these are not themselves processes of thinking, but rather are extremely complex processes involving all kinds of events and entities other than language and other than thinking--e.g., feelings, perceptions, buildings, other persons, days and nights, books, and so on. None of these processes is a process of thinking; and for that reason alone it is invalid to infer from them that thinking is linguistic behavior, or that one thinks with language. What is essential to things or events of a certain sort must be shown essential to them taken by themselves, not in combination with many other things. With reference to the involved processes in question, it might be more appropriate (though it would still be wrong) to say--as some have said in recent years--that we live in or with language. Nevertheless, it is certain that some kind of dependence relation--probably similar to feedback mechanisms--exists between linguistic processes and their sensuous signs, on the one hand, and certain sequences of t-states on the other. What, exactly, this relation <132> of dependence is continues to be veiled by, among other things, a priori assumptions about what thinking and language must be and do. One such assumption is that which holds thinking essentially to be an operation with signs or symbols, or doing something with--or in--linguistic processes or entities.

The view that we (necessarily) think without language is, today, regarded as so outlandish as not to merit serious consideration. But this is not due to a lack of arguments to support it. My object here has been to focus upon certain arguments purporting to show the absurdity of thinking in language. The main points in these arguments are: Thinking does occur without any accompanying language whatsoever, and thus shows itself not to be a power or act of managing linguistic signs, once it is clear what such a sign is. Thinking, as distinct from behavioral processes involving it, can do nothing to signs or symbols, and hence can do nothing with them.


NOTES

  1. See for example, Ramsey's Foundations of Mathematics, p. 138, and Kneale's remarks in Feigl and Sellars, Readings in Philosophical Analysis, p. 42. Return to text.
  2. See S. Morris Engel, "Thought and Language," Dialogue, Vol. 3, 1964, 160-170; Jerome Shaffer, "Recent Work on the Mind-Body Problem," American Philosophical Quarterly, Vol. II, 1965, esp. p. 83; R. Kirk, "Rationality Without Language," Mind, 1967, pp. 369-368; G. Ryle, "A Puzzling Element in the Notion of Thinking," in Studies in the Philosophy of Thought and Action, P. F. Strawson, ed., (Oxford: 1968), pp. 7-23. Interesting remarks on the issues here are also found in Bruce Aune's Knowledge, Mind and Nature, chap. VIII and H. H. Price's Thinking and Experience, Chap. X.  See also Wm. James, "Thought Before Language; A Deaf Mute's Recollections," Mind, Vol. I, 1892; and see Wittgenstein's comments on this in Philosophical Investigations, No. 342. Return to text.
  3. I use only think here, for simplicity; but think that and other structures of such intentional states (and sequences thereof) might also be mentioned. Specifically, I would also wish to hold that instances of thinking that, in the sense of inferring or puzzling something out, occur in the absence of appropriate linguistic entities or activities. Return to text.


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: consciousness; dallaswillard; epistemology; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; intelligence; intention; intentionality; language; linguistics; metaphysics; mind; ontology; psychology; semantics; semasiology; semiotics; sense; thinking; thought; willard
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To: unspun
Hmmmm ... very interesting about your dreams, unspun. This is like the "purple elephants" metaphor! The Steve Allen story is fascinating too. Thank you!!!
1,161 posted on 06/04/2003 9:45:54 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: js1138; Alamo-Girl; Consort; betty boop; Kudsman; Phaedrus; cornelis; Anybody
There is no sense of knowing what's going to happen next, and no sense of any coherent natural laws. Things just happen.

I don't recall the specifics, but I've had dreams of the kind where I'd been surprised, but seemingly only in the way in which one would consciously have devised the story, in order for the surprise to fit the circumstances (not unlike the climax in a mystery story, when the clues come to make sense). Explain that one!

1,162 posted on 06/04/2003 9:48:20 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: unspun
Very interesting, unspun! It would seem that a musical composition coming together in a dream would also evidence something more complicated going on.
1,163 posted on 06/04/2003 9:53:22 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Kudsman; man of Yosemite
Thank you K & mano'Yo, for your testimony of Consciousness being shared with your consciousness.

Distinct and specific, isn't God? Appropriately so, since we are distinct beings, having been made in his image. People have many gods, but God does not have MPD.
1,164 posted on 06/04/2003 9:57:54 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: Alamo-Girl
I have noticed my dog's legs moving like he's chasing a rabbit while he is sleeping. So it appears he must have some kind of thought going on.

I saw an article in |Scientific American claiming that MRI scans of animals dreaming show the same brain activity as when they are awake seeing prey animals. I have no idea how to verify my intuition about dreams being similar to animal consciousness, but I observe that animals seem to know what is happening right now, but have a limited ability to predict what will happen next, and this is one of the chief charactistics of my vivid dreams.

1,165 posted on 06/04/2003 10:05:40 PM PDT by js1138
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To: unspun
Interesting stuff. It certainly contradicts the usual definition of being conscious -- i.e., awake.
1,166 posted on 06/04/2003 10:07:41 PM PDT by js1138
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To: Alamo-Girl; js1138; betty boop; Kudsman; man of Yosemite
More about dreams, v. briefly: during about the time of the South Carolina Primary in 2000, I was wondering (and I think praying some, probably even consciously;-) about whether I could whole-heartedly support George W. Bush.

On the next morning, when I seemed to be in one of those states of knowing I was dreaming (I think returning to dreaming from having awakened) I had a picture of George H.W. Bush as a young man in Texas, while his wife Barbara was in the East (in or near D.C. in the dream, I think). Outdoors in rocky terrain, Bush 41 bent down and picked up a pen or stylus-sized shaft of grey-black stone with flat crystaline sides and ridges, perhaps hexagonal along the shaft not unlike those of a pencil, and with a large, clear, rough stone at one end.

The words, as if spoken by another, a clearly authoritative source, came to my consciousness: "When he was born, his father found a diamond."

(I may have mentioned this before.) I awakened with a sense of having been informed.
1,167 posted on 06/04/2003 10:15:54 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: unspun
Another good source of information on consciousness is the Journal of Consciousness Studies.

I don't recall most of my dreams but guess we are conscious all the time we are alive, awake or asleep, since we think all the time we are alive. We can be awake and aware, awake and not aware if we are in shock or have some other problem. Maybe we can be asleep and aware since we can remember dreams and we can hear the alarm. A coma or a trance or shock or stoned, etc are probably different conditions, as well. I think that no matter which of those conditions we are in, we are still conscious beings.

1,168 posted on 06/04/2003 10:36:36 PM PDT by Consort
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To: js1138
That is fascinating, js1138! Thank you for sharing!

It occurs to me that in your music dream, you may not have been aware of what was coming next but your mind was organizing to an end. I can't imagine a complete work been produced by random chance.

Perhaps these are different states of conscious and subconscious thought at work while dreaming?

1,169 posted on 06/04/2003 10:37:32 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun
Very very interesting, unspun! Indeed, that dream sounds more like a revelation.
1,170 posted on 06/04/2003 10:39:17 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun
I don't recall the specifics, but I've had dreams of the kind where I'd been surprised, but seemingly only in the way in which one would consciously have devised the story, in order for the surprise to fit the circumstances (not unlike the climax in a mystery story, when the clues come to make sense). Explain that one!

I can't. It happened to you. Maybe Deja vu is a feeble attempt? Any hoo I think you are onto understanding a capability that the mind may have. If you could do this in a woken state and actually envision the outcome happening I think you would be operating somewhat like fifteen dogs is advocating? Gods grace on each of us manifests itself in different ways I would imagine. What seems possible and logical to some would seem ridiculus to others thereby rendering surety in any one set "pattern" next to impossible. This I think might serve His purpose in keeping the "knowing of Gods ways" a mystery and hence lead others to seek for themselves. Just some thoughts and opinions. Everyone's got them but some just feel right sometimes.(or IOW,ring true) Right AG?

1,171 posted on 06/04/2003 10:56:25 PM PDT by Kudsman (LETS GET IT ON!!! The price of freedom is vigilance. Tyranny is free of charge.)
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To: unspun
God does reveal things through dreams, but we don't always know what is being said, that being our fault not his.

I dreamt in May of 2001 of four giant red horses, saddled without riders, standing about 100 feet high, towering over an American suburb. After that scene, I saw a normal sized horse standing next to an Arab man, his hoof being cleaned by him. I awoke and went to the book of Revelation to see what the significance of a red horse was, there reading that the red horse would take peace from the earth. The dream seems to have been a premonition, but I have only understood that after the 9/11 attacks. In my thinking now, the four horses may have been the four planes that we were attacked by.
1,172 posted on 06/05/2003 6:55:25 AM PDT by man of Yosemite ("When a man decides to do something everyday, that's about when he stops doing it.")
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To: man of Yosemite
What were any distinguishing qualities of the normal sized horse? Was it red, for instance?
1,173 posted on 06/05/2003 7:01:32 AM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: js1138
Many inventors have seen their invention in a dream and launched out to produce them. I had once been told that the round objects on phone poles through which the electric lines pass had been dreamed first and then invented. I don't know if that's true, or some weird urban legend.
1,174 posted on 06/05/2003 7:03:27 AM PDT by man of Yosemite ("When a man decides to do something everyday, that's about when he stops doing it.")
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To: Kudsman
Thank you so much for sharing your views! Indeed, when I have occasioned upon something of spiritual importance, it rings true to my Spirit as you describe.

Gods grace on each of us manifests itself in different ways...

That rings very true to me! Hugs!!!

1,175 posted on 06/05/2003 8:19:10 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: unspun
Distinct and specific, isn't God? Appropriately so, since we are distinct beings, having been made in his image. I agree. Right down to our individual thumb prints. God's inspiration and gifts are also unique it seems. While experiences may be similar to some the exactness and volume probably vary greatly. This is seen in the pysical prowess of atheletes, musical and artistic genius, inventors, etc. Each striving for excellence it seems for that one shining moment where they can stand on the pinnacle of success and point to the sky while saying it is by the grace of God that I found the strength, determination and courage to overcome my obstacles. How great He is that we can all share in this kind of Joy. Each on our own level, overcoming our own demons. That you for affirmation of some of what I say and believe, but know that the inspiration and indeed the majority of the "work" is made possible by the love He has for me and that which I wholeheartily return to Him. Love is the common gift to all. :-)
1,176 posted on 06/05/2003 9:53:34 AM PDT by Kudsman (LETS GET IT ON!!! The price of freedom is vigilance. Tyranny is free of charge.)
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To: unspun
I've patronized Hawaii many different ways, but I'd never stayed at the Halekulani Hotel.The service was outstanding and there were many fewer children running around than any place else I've stayed there (and I love my neices and nephews,but there's a time and place for everything). If you want to do Waikiki correctly (and calmly) stay at this Hotel.At least go there for the food alone,which is outstanding.( Gee, I almost sound like an advertisement. LOL---well,you did ask)

http://www.halekulani.com/
1,177 posted on 06/05/2003 9:54:26 AM PDT by Pagey (Hillary Rotten is a Smug, Holier - Than - Thou Socialist)
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To: Kudsman
Again, what a beautiful testimony! Bump!
1,178 posted on 06/05/2003 10:06:43 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Hank Kerchief; Alamo-Girl; betty boop
What do you mean by consciousness?

That is a complicated question, because it is built on different assumptions for different people. And I think that is part of the problem: people drag a lot of conceptual baggage with them when they discuss this issue that makes their judgment suspect, because they aren't even cognizant of the assumptions they are making.

My sole assumption is that the human mind is essentially finite state. My definition works for non-finite state systems as well, but since my underlying assumption is finite state I'll work from this assumption. (Beside which, the infinite state case is not interesting.)

"Consciousness" is not a boolean thing, but a qualitative gradient. This is consistent with evidence and with a finite state definition of consciousness. Consciousness is a metric of the ability of a system to model its internal state (i.e. "self-model") and correlates with "self-awareness". The manner in which "consciousness" expands with system complexity (Kolmogorov that is) is also roughly consistent with our general experience.

Per this mathematical model on finite state systems, we would expect a hard exponential take-off in the consciousness metric as a function of Kolmogorov complexity, or as applied to critters, the size and density of the higher brain regions. In other words, theory suggests that consciousness would be extremely marginal (or non-existent) until you cross a certain fairly large threshold. Once you get past a certain point, though, minor differences in capacity can lead to huge differences in self-awareness.

I think that humans are the furthest ones along on this exponential ramp, probably sitting just past the corner. Other higher mammals have some consciousness, but it is markedly less even with relatively small differences in capacity. Hard exponential distributions have this effect; a higher mammal with 25% of the higher brain capacity of a human may only have 2% of the "consciousness" of a human because self-modeling capability deteriorates VERY fast with shrinking brain capacity.

This is my general view of consciousness, and the model from my finite state assumptions is consistent with the evidence. Significant self-awareness requires a hell of a lot of resources, and there is quite a bit of evidence (e.g. cases of higher brain damage) that we are not sitting too far up that curve.

Since this explains both the general distribution of consciousness in critters AND it explains the general properties of consciousness AND it is consistent with a clean finite state model of these types of systems in general, I'm inclined to adopt it with few reservations. At a minimum it is elegant and doesn't have any gaping holes. (In case you are wondering, emotions and other such things fit into this framework very nicely, I just don't have the time to explain them in this context.)

1,179 posted on 06/05/2003 11:25:23 AM PDT by tortoise
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To: js1138; unspun; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; cornelis; logos; Dataman; Heartlander
I am curious if anyone shares my view that we are conscious when we dream.

I dunno, js1138. I have noticed that normally, the contents of the dream state and full waking consciousness seem to be different. Dreams seem to deal with images that aren't time ordered in any particular way. Conscious thought, on the other hand -- at least analytical thought, or speech-communicable ideas -- relies less on images and more on words and symbols, and involves deliberate time ordering.

[As a side note, with the increasing instability of language; the lack of broad consensus about the meanings of various symbols; and the seemingly increasing deculturalization of the populace in recent times, images seem more and more to "rule," especially as disseminated through the media of television, film, advertising, etc. But that's another story.]

Am I conscious when I dream? All I can report on that question is that, should I become aware that I'm dreaming, that's invariably been the triggering event that makes me wake up. But maybe that's just a personal ideosyncracy, hardly a "universal rule."

I'm not intimately familiar with the history of Helen Keller. What I do recall, however, was that she was given to fits and temper tantrums until a way was found to "reach her" and educate her regarding the acquisition of symbols and language -- the media of personal communication. Perhaps she was given to rages because she was locked into a relentlessly imagistic world; or perhaps the lack of the ability to communicate with others, and a resulting sense of frustration, personal isolation, and loneliness was driving her mad. Lacking sight and hearing, the only contacts that she could have with the "outside world" were mediated by common symbols, which are constructs in consciousness, expressions of intellect. When she gained that, she was on her way to becoming a spectacularly successful human individual and, by all accounts, a happy one.

I'm surprised to learn that you feel so detached from the past, js. I don't know how it is possible to understand oneself or one's values and beliefs without reference to things that have happened to us in the past. What we are today is so much the "product" of what we were and did in the past -- past becomes future in a very pregnant sense.

I'm just kind of rambling here. Your topic is a most interesting one, and it's great fun to speculate about it. But at the end of the day, all I really know about the matter is "I just don't know."

1,180 posted on 06/05/2003 11:48:14 AM PDT by betty boop (When people accept futility and the absurd as normal, the culture is decadent. -- Jacques Barzun)
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