Iraq 'could become the economic giant of Gulf'

and don't forget those palaces....they arfe going to be owned by Hilton and Marriott and others and you and I are going to pay money to sleep in them

Iraq can become the economic giant among the Arab world provided she embraces true freedom and capitalism. To the extent the Islamists win, Iraq will be just another backard Arab nation after the rebirth.

I predict Babylon will be an economic powerhouse soon.

Pay attention to some things here:

(Rev 18:1 KJV) And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

(Rev 18:2 KJV) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

(Rev 18:3 KJV) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

(Rev 18:4 KJV) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

(Rev 18:5 KJV) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

(Rev 18:6 KJV) Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

(Rev 18:7 KJV) How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

(Rev 18:8 KJV) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

(Rev 18:9 KJV) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

(Rev 18:10 KJV) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

(Rev 18:11 KJV) And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

(Rev 18:12 KJV) The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

(Rev 18:13 KJV) And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

(Rev 18:14 KJV) And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

Babylon will be rebuilt, and in this passage, it is spoken of as a major commercial center. While there are references to a religious system in the previous chapter, this is the literal city of Babylon here.

Watch this space, for after this time of war in Iraq and the Middle East is over, there will be a rebuilding of Iraq/Babylon like we have never seen!!

(Rev 18:15 KJV) The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

(Rev 18:16 KJV) And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

(Rev 18:17 KJV) For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

(Rev 18:18 KJV) And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

(Rev 18:19 KJV) And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

(Rev 18:20 KJV) Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

(Rev 18:21 KJV) And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

(Rev 18:22 KJV) And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

(Rev 18:23 KJV) And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

(Rev 18:24 KJV) And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

some Gulf analysts fear a rebuilt Iraq will be a powerhouse that could squeeze the region's other economies over the long term.

Talk about your outdated economics!!

The economy of a region of the world is not like a pie, where a bigger piece by one country reduces the size of the others!

Even JFK in 1964 understood that economically, a rising tide lifts all boats.

Or do I miss something?

some Gulf analysts fear a rebuilt Iraq will be a powerhouse that could squeeze the region's other economies over the long term.

This is typical socialist thinking. Marxists always seem to think that economics is a zero-sum game, and if one guy wins the others will lose. But the U.S. has long since proven that prosperity is contagious, and if one guy wins his neighbors will probably do better too.

This is assuming that the other Arab countries start to reform. If they don't, then they will only be screwing themselves--as usual.

Other than the fact that JFK was killed in 63, did I miss something?

Great minds...

"Pay attention to some things here:"

The antichrist

Most Christians today are taught that the antichrist is alive right now, and that he is about to break forth onto the world scene as a brilliant yet wicked world leader.

Although the antichrist is perhaps the most popular figure in the current prophecy scene, he is also the most misunderstood.

The problem is that premillennial authors focus their attention on Daniel’s little horn, Paul’s man of sin, and the beast in Revelation, yet ignore the passages of Scripture which actually discuss antichrist.

There are only four passages of Scripture which expressly mention “antichrist,” all in the epistles of John (1 Jn. 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 Jn. 7).

John corrects the false notion of antichrist that had arisen among Christians in his own day; he declares that antichrist is not something far off in the future but a present reality.

Second, he says that antichrist is not a single individual but a large group of people.

Third, he defines antichrist not as a person (a coming world leader) but as a current movement: “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour” (1 Jn. 2:18).

Many Christians in John’s day had heard that antichrist (singular) was coming. John responded by saying that even now many antichrists (plural) had arisen. The verb “have arisen” or “have come” (gegonasin) indicates that these antichrists arose in the past and were still present.

The presence of these antichrists proves that “it is (present tense) the last hour” (2:18).

Thus it is evident that John (who wrote the book of Revelation) rejected the idea of a future, singular antichrist; instead, he warned Christians of a heretical movement (or movements).

There are many antichrists. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist” (2 Jn. 7). “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son” (1 Jn. 2:22). “‘These antichrists who have arisen,’ says John, ‘belonged to us, but they were not of us.’

In other words, they took up the Christian position, they claimed they were Christian, they professed to be teachers of the Christian Church, and yet they have been separated from the Christians in order that it would be clear to all that they were not of them.

In other words, they claimed to delight in the true religion and yet they destroyed it.” [Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Walking with God: Studies in I John (Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 1993), p. 100.]

John focused the attention of his readers upon one, or perhaps two, heretical movements.

The first, probably Gnostic in origin, denied the real humanity of Jesus Christ (2 Jn. 7).

The second, probably Jewish in origin, denied that Jesus was the Messiah (1 Jn. 2:22). “John clearly applies the conception of the one antichrist (ho antichristos) to the generic tendency to promote lies about the identity of Christ.” [Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., He Shall Have Dominion (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1992), p. 373]

“Every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world” (1 Jn. 4:3).

“Antichrist is not an individual, malevolent ruler looming in our future. Rather, Antichrist was a contemporary heretical tendency regarding the person of Christ that was current among many in John’s day.” [Gentry, p. 374] ~~~ Brian Schwertley

2. The beast

Another greatly misunderstood figure from the Bible is the beast of Revelation. The beast, unlike the antichrist, is at least a real political leader. The problem with most modern interpretations seeking to identity the beast is that the many textual indicators given by John to identify the beast are ignored in favor of the futurist, revived Roman emperor idea.

In the book of Revelation the beast is identified as both an empire and as a leader of an empire.

The empire is without question the Roman empire of John’s own day.

In Revelation 13 John is standing on the sand of the sea and observing a beast rising up out of the sea. The beast has “seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority” (Rev. 13:1-2).

John describes the very same animals alluded to by the prophet Daniel to describe three of the four great world empires: Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece (Dan. 7:1-6). The fourth empire, which has all the beast-like features of the other empires (only much worse), is none other than the Roman empire (Dan. 7:7).

In Revelation 17:12 John declares that the ten horns are ten kings; they are the leaders or governors of the ten imperial provinces.

In Revelation 17:9-10, John identifies the seven heads as both seven hills (a place) and seven kings (individuals). In the ancient world Rome was known as the city of seven mountains.

John, standing on the edge of the Mediterranean sea, looks in the direction of Rome and sees a beast coming out of the sea. Rome was a world empire that had authority over all peoples and nations (Rev. 13:7); that was the culmination of the four empires in Daniel, an empire that was satanic to the core (v. 2); and that existed on seven mountains (v. 9).

Following are some other features about the beast.

1. The beast was not only an empire but was also a man (Rev. 13:18).

John says that the beast had a blasphemous name on its heads (v. 1).

The Roman Caesars were worshiped as gods. Roman emperors were referred to as: Sebastos (one to be worshiped), divus (god) and even Deus and Theos (God). [David Chilton, The Days of Vengeance, An Exposition of the Book of Revelation (Fort Worth, TX: Dominion, 1987) p. 328]

Nero’s coins said “Savior of the world,” and Domitian was referred to as “our Lord and our God.”

John gives a number of specific indicators that identify the beast, all of which point not to someone over 2,000 years in the future, but to an emperor still living in John’s own day: Nero.

Revelation 17:10 says, “There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.”

John specifically says that the sixth king is presently ruling. Who is the sixth king? None other than Nero, the first great persecutor of Christians.

Following is a list of the Roman Caesars: 1. Julius (49-44 B.C.), 2. Augustus (31 B.C.-A.D. 14), 3. Tiberius (A.D. 14-37), 4. Gaius (Caligula, A.D. 37-41), 5. Claudius (A.D. 41-54), 6. Nero (A.D. 54-68), 7. Galba (A.D. 68).

John said that the sixth king was ruling when he wrote; this king would be followed by a seventh who would rule for only “a short time” (Rev. 17:10).

This was fulfilled to the letter: Nero was followed by Galba who ruled for only three months before he was assassinated.

2. John gives another identifier of the beast: a number.

“Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666” (Rev. 13:18).

Why does not John just say who the beast is? Why does he speak cryptically? John was writing from Patmos where he was exiled by the Romans. The church was being persecuted systematically by the Roman state under Nero.

John identifies the Roman emperor but he does it in such a way so that he protects the church from reprisal if the letter is intercepted by the Roman authorities.

Almost every church in the Roman empire contained both Jews and Gentiles. The Jews living in John’s day used their alphabet for both sound symbols (phonetics) and numerical values. Each letter of the Hebrew alphabet had a numerical value.

A Hebrew spelling of Nero’s name found in documents contemporary with the writing of Revelation is Nrwn Qsr, which equals exactly 666. [The number 666 in some ancient manuscripts of Scripture is actually changed to 616. The difference surely is no accident of sight made by an early copyist. The numbers 666 and 616 are not similar in appearance in the original Greek—whether spelled out in words or written out as numerals. Textual scholars agree: it must be intentional. Although we cannot be absolutely certain, a strong and most reasonable case may be made for the following conjecture. John, a Jew, used a Hebrew spelling of Nero’s name in order to arrive at the figure 666. But when Revelation began circulating among those less acquainted with Hebrew, a well-meaning copyist who knew the meaning of 666 might have intended to make its deciphering easier by altering it to 616. It surely is no mere coincidence that 616 is the numerical value of ‘Nero Caesar,’ when spelled in Hebrew by transliterating it from its more common Latin spelling” (Gentry, pp. 376-77)] ~~~ Brian Schwertley

3. Another indicator is the beastly image itself.

Nero truly possessed a wicked, bestial nature. He was even referred to as a “beast” by his contemporaries. [The pagan writer Apollinius of Tyana, a contemporary of Nero, specifically mentions that Nero was called a “beast” (ibid., p. 377). Nero may have acquired the nickname “the beast” from some of his perverse activities. Nero was a sadistic pervert who was hated and feared, even by the pagan Romans.]

“Nero, who murdered numerous members of his own family (including his pregnant wife, whom he kicked to death); who was homosexual, the final stage in degeneracy (Rom. 1:24-32); whose favorite aphrodisiac consisted of watching people suffer the most horrifying and disgusting tortures; who dressed up as a wild beast in order to attack and rape male and female prisoners; who used the bodies of Christians burning at the stake as the original ‘Roman candles’ to light up his filthy garden parties; who launched the first imperial persecution of Christians at the instigation of the Jews, in order to destroy the Church; this animalistic pervert was the ruler of the most powerful empire on earth.” [Chilton, p. 329]

4. John said that the beast would make war upon God’s saints.

“The Beast is said to ‘make war with the saints and to overcome them’ (Rev. 13:7).

In fact, he is said to conduct such blasphemous warfare for a specific period of time: 42 months (Rev. 13:5).

The Neronic persecution, which was initiated by Nero in A.D. 64, was the first ever Roman assault on Christianity, as noted by Church fathers Eusebius, Tertullian, Paulus Orosius, and Sulpicius Severus, as well as by Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius.” [Gentry, pp. 377-78]

Nero’s assassination by the sword on June 8, A.D. 68, ended the bloody persecution of believers. Note that Nero’s persecution of Christians lasted 42 months, exactly as prophesied by the Apostle John in Revelation 13:5. ~~~ Brian Schwertley

3. The mark of the beast

Is everyone soon to receive a bar code on his forehead and/or right hand in order to buy and sell goods? Is the government going to force people to have a computer chip inserted in their right hand for identification purposes? While these things are possible, they have absolutely nothing to do with the mark of the beast spoken of in Revelation.

In the Old Testament God spoke of total allegiance to Him and His law as a putting of the law on the forehead and on the hands: “You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes” (Dt. 6:8).

In Revelation, those who are faithful to Christ, “the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes” (Rev. 14:4), are said to have “His [the Lamb’s] Father’s name written on their foreheads” (Rev. 14:1).

John also refers to it as a seal: “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads” (Rev. 7:3).

The Lord tells the church at Sardis: “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem...” (Rev. 3:12).

Even after the second coming John says, “His name shall be on their foreheads” (Rev. 22:4).

In the old covenant “Aaron bore on his forehead the name of the Lord inscribed on the crown on the front of the priestly mitre.” [Meredith G. Kline, Images of the Spirit, (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1980), p. 54.]

It is obvious that having the name of Christ (or God the Father, Rev. 14:1) on the forehead is not meant to be taken literally but is representative of allegiance to God, ownership by God, and even the presence of God the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, the mark of the beast should be viewed as “the Satanic parody of the ‘seal of God’ on the foreheads and hands of the righteous.... Israel has rejected Christ, and is ‘marked’ with the seal of Rome’s total lordship; she has given her allegiance to Caesar, and is obedient to his rule and law. Israel chose to be saved by the pagan state, and persecuted those who sought salvation in Christ.” [Chilton, p. 342]

The mark of the beast is a counterfeit of God’s seal on His people. Those who give their allegiance to Caesar and the Roman state have social respectability and the benefits that go with it (economic, political, religious, etc.).

The Roman state demanded total allegiance to Caesar; everyone was required to make an offering of incense unto Caesar as God. “All who dwell on the earth will worship him [the beast], whose names have not been written in the Book of Life...” (Rev. 13:8).

But Christians refused to worship the beast and thus were persecuted unto death and became economic and social outcasts. The mark of the beast reflects a wicked heart that worships and serves Caesar.

“The imagery no doubt comes from the practice of branding slaves with the mark of their master.” [Philip Edgecumbe Hughes, The Book of the Revelation, pp. 153-54.]

Christians are slaves of Christ; all others are slaves of Satan.

Revelation 13 focuses on the Roman empire and the beast—Nero Caesar.

Things look very bleak for the church in chapter 13, but in chapter 14 the prophet focuses his attention upon Christ and His people.

Those who persecute the church, who worship the beast, will receive their due:

“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever” (Rev. 14:9-11).

But Christians are blessed: “‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them’” (v. 13).

Although these words should comfort Christians of all ages, they were written specifically to comfort believers suffering the persecution of Nero—the Beast.

This truth is confirmed when the many time indicators within Revelation are considered.

John wrote, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants things which must shortly take place.... Blessed is he who reads...for the time is near.... The Lord God...sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place” (Rev. 1:1-3; 22:6).

Five times Jesus Christ declared, “I am coming quickly” (2:16; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20); He was referring to His coming to judge apostate Israel and their Roman accomplices in the persecution of the church (this judgment occurred in A.D. 67-70).

But He promised to spare a faithful first-century church from the coming conflagration: “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world” (3:10).

The purpose of the references to the millennium, the second coming, the final judgment and the eternal state is to give persecuted first-century Christians a glimpse of the church’s glorious future.

The significance of the book of Revelation *to its first-century audience* must no longer be ignored. ~~~ Brian Schwertley

Babylon is to Satan what Jerusalem is to God.

I'll bet you believe in replacement theology.

The bull's eye is OPEC, imho. The cartel needs to be dismantled!

You took the words out of my mouth.

Those prophecies have all been fulfilled. The book of revelation was written in the early to mid-60's A.D. and gives prophecies about events that were "shortly" to take place, namely the destruction of the Temple and the siege of Jerusalem in 67-70 A.D.

If they are lucky they will find some connection with the American Indian tribes so they can open some casinos and get rich quick.

He was referring to His coming to judge apostate Israel and their Roman accomplices in the persecution of the church (this judgment occurred in A.D. 67-70).

I guess I must have missed the second coming then. Sounds like it happened 1,900 years ago.

The scripture says that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled." The re-establishment of the nation of Israel and the Jewish control of Jerusalem must be a real thorn to you symbolic interpreters. What are you going to say when CNN is broadcasting from Babylon. I guess you'll be like Baghdad Bob and deny what is obvious.

We are about to witness the validation of one method of prophetic interpretation. We'll see how it unfolds.

I agree with you and believe the destruction of Jerusalem was about 70 AD. People are wrong that try to link Revelation with future events.

>I am hopeful that a strong Iraqi economy will mean an educated electorate.
> This might forestall the onset of an "Islamic Republic" dominated by hostile Ayatollahs.

>Here's a prediction though: the Iraqi Republic to come will be plagued at first by assasinations and civil war.

Please let it be so - bury Saudi Arabia!