Pope Warns That War Could Bring 'Religious Catastrophe'

Washington Post ^ | March 30, 2003 | Reuters

[DED]

VATICAN CITY, March 29 -- Pope John Paul II said today he hoped that the human tragedy of the war in Iraq would not set Christians and Muslims against each other and spark "a religious catastrophe."

"War must never be allowed to divide world religions," he told visiting Roman Catholic bishops from Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country. The pope said good inter-religious relations were important "at this moment of heightened tension in the entire world community."

The pope is opposed to the war in Iraq and led a Vatican diplomatic campaign to avert it. The Iraq conflict has put the Vatican at odds with the Bush administration because the pope has refused to bless the conflict as a "just war."

In the months before the Iraq war began, John Paul lobbied in favor of a negotiated solution. He has said there is no legal or moral justification for the military action, and has worried about how it could affect relations between Christians and Muslims.

[DED]

The pope has stated repeatedly that the war is wrong.

Quotes from the Washington Post:

"In the months before the Iraq war began, John Paul lobbied in favor of a negotiated solution. He has said THERE IS NO LEGAL OR MORAL JUSTIFICATION for the military action, and has worried about how it could affect relations between Christians and Muslims."

"The pope is opposed to the war in Iraq and led a Vatican diplomatic campaign to avert it. The Iraq conflict has put the Vatican at odds with the Bush administration because the POPE HAS REFUSED TO BLESS THE CONFLICT AS A "JUST WAR"."

[Jhoffa_]

Yeah, but look at who you are talking about. The UN has sat on it's hands for years and passed resolutions.. Even their latest round of inspections wouldn't have gotten off the ground without our troops in place. Saddam would have flipped them bird just like a thousand times before.

In my opinion, the fact remains that the ball has been solidly in Saddam's court for more than a decade. All he had to do was abide by the deal he made to stop the first gulf war. He cried "uncle" there, not us. He made a deal and then he broke it.

If he would have kept his deal, this would be ancient history. The onus was on him to do as he said.. Not the reverse.

Let me ask you:

Suppose you commit a crime, are caught and cop a plea to get off with community service instead of jail.. THEN, you refuse to do the community service, as you promised.

Are the cops immoral for coming after you? Are they actually the "agressors" in this scenario? Or is it your own fault and something that any reasonable person would have anticipated?

[ex-snook]

You are most certainly an obtuse, ignorant fool, and no one should waste his time debating with you. Wallow in your blindness. Or go to DU.

Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts. But I can read the rules for this site.

[DED]

Thank you very much for an excellent post.
It's pretty tough these days to try to consistently recognize WWJD, don't you think?
"The fool has said in his heart there is no God."

[sinkspur]

I have not seen any statement by the Pope that the war is wrong. I have seen several statements praying for peace, urging negotiations if possible,

What kind of negotiations does the Pope have in mind? What does one "negotiate" with a thug like Hussein?

The Pope may not have said the war is unjust, but many close to him have, and he has not corrected them.

The Pope, and other Catholic churchmen, are talking too much. They should pray, and encourage others to pray, and say NOTHING ELSE!

[Jhoffa_]

The person you are addressing is a senior FReeper. Ex-Snook has been here for about half a decade.

You may not agree Snooks opinion, but he hardly a fool who belongs at the DU because of it.

[BamaFan69]

Some quotes for the Pope:

"Once you've decided, don't delay. The best is the enemy of the good... a good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week." (Gen. George S. Patton Jr.)

" Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." (Joe Louis said this)

"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. (Gen. George S. Patton Jr.)

And the greatest quote of them all....

No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.
-General George S. Patton

War is ugly, people die. That is a fact... If they would all accept Jesus into their hearts.. Problem solved...However, they choose Allah.

[sinkspur]

We have contained Iraq for the past dozen years. This is about oil, regime change or Israel, not some body count.

9/11 changed everything, snookems. The US can no longer sit back and wait to get hit by terrorists, or their sponsors.

We're not going to roll up the sidewalks like your boy Buchanan wants.

There are those who want to kill us, and we are NOT GOING TO LET THEM!!!

[DED]

I wish you could read something else, as you completely missed everything you didn't want to hear in my previous post. You betcha China and Russia have killed more people, but there's no reason to think we're next in thier book either. And because the consequences of attempting to halt the evil practices of China, Russia, or N. Korea would be too terrible to contemplate, does that mean we're required to ignore Saddam Hussein's evil empire - OUT OF FAIRNESS?
And since the previous post mentioned that you belong on DU, it bears mentioning - people on Free Republic can handle an opposing opinion like yours - at DU, you get banned for posting not just Democratic opinions, but for posting non-liberal Democratic opinions.

[ex-snook]

"The Pope, and other Catholic churchmen, are talking too much. They should pray, and encourage others to pray, and say NOTHING ELSE! "

Hey Sink and to think people are mad at Pope Pius for not speaking out! Goodnight all.

[DED]

Good point.
If Iran persists in messing around in Iraq, they may lay the groundwork for taking them out next - many claim they are the number one terrorist sponsors in the world.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Where have you been, ya hardheaded girl? :)

BigMack

[DED]

You left out my personal favorite. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Bill Clinton did nothing; evil fluorished, bringing us to 9-11 and the current state of affairs.

[viaveritasvita]

Excellent point.

[freedom9]

"The Pope does not even control his own church, which has been filled with pedophile priests. Is there any reason to believe that he is any more credible than they? What makes the Pope think he is qualified to tell anyone what they should do?

This has been going on for a very long time.

[nmh]

Laz17 you are so right.

[PhiKapMom]

From the London Times on-line, 10 Feb 2003:

Vatican diplomacy

Pope takes issue with America's 'just war'
From Richard Owen in Rome

THE POPE launched an eleventh-hour crusade yesterday to avert a war against Iraq, for which he believes there is no justification.

The ageing pontiff rebuffed attempts by the Bush Administration to persuade him that impending military action against Baghdad amounted to a Christian “just war”.

Today he will dispatch a personal peace envoy to Baghdad to urge President Saddam Hussein to co-operate fully with United Nations weapons inspectors.

At the end of the week he will meet Tariq Aziz, Iraq’s Deputy Prime Minister and an Arab Christian, in Rome, and will also meet Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General. Diplomats said that Mr Aziz might remain in Rome to meet Mr Annan under the auspices of the Vatican.

Looking and sounding like a man rejuvenated by the urgent need to avert the imminent conflict, the Pope, 82, also gave his backing to the new Franco-German plan to resolve the Iraq crisis through beefed-up weapons inspections and the deployment of UN troops. The plan was disclosed to the Pope on Friday by Joschka Fischer, the German Foreign Minister. Diplomats said that the Pope had been “the first world figure to be told of the plan”.

Yesterday the Pope made a dramatic and impassioned appeal for world prayers, declaring that only God could stop the conflict now. “At this hour of international worry we all feel the need to look to God and beg him to grant us the great gift of peace,” he told pilgrims and visitors in St Peter’s Square. Only “an act from on high” could offer hope of altering what appeared to be a bleak future.

The Pope is sending Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, his diplomatic troubleshooter, to Baghdad. Cardinal Etchegaray, a French Basque, has undertaken sensitive diplomatic missions for the Pope in the past. Last year he helped to negotiate an end to the siege of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, where Palestinian gunmen had taken refuge.

At the weekend the Pope said that efforts to stave off war must be multiplied. “One cannot do nothing in the face of terrorist attacks, but equally one cannot be idle in the face of the threats now on the horizon,” he said. “War is not inevitable.”

The case for a “just war” was made at the weekend by Michael Novak, a conservative Roman Catholic theologian and a close ally of President Bush, in talks with senior Vatican officials, including Archbishop Jean-Louis Tauran, the Pope’s Foreign Secretary.

Under the principles of “just war”, as formulated by St Augustine of Hippo and later by St Thomas Aquinas, war can be waged only as a last resort and by a “legitimate authority”. It must be fought with “right intentions”, for example in self-defence or to redress a wrong, and with a reasonable chance of success to avoid excessive death and injury. The theory of just war also holds that civilian casualties must be avoided, that the means used must be proportionate and that the ultimate goal should be to establish a peace “preferable to what would have prevailed if the war had not been fought”.

Mr Novak, who today will address a conference in Rome on just war organised by James Nicholson, the US Ambassador to the Holy See, insisted that war against Iraq amounted to self-defence. He told Archbishop Tauran that Saddam was using Iraqi scientists “to breed huge destruction in the US and Europe”. He said that those who opposed war would have a lot on their consciences if the United States failed to act and Americans were later killed by Saddam’s weapons. The Catholic catechism also justified the use of force provided that it was sanctioned by those responsible for the common good, Mr Novak said.

But the Archbishop, speaking for the Pope, said that US arguments were insufficient and that there was no imminent threat from Baghdad that could justify a war.

Civiltà Cattolica (Catholic Civilisation), a Jesuit journal that reflects Vatican views, said that “the Islamic masses, which already harbour a deep hatred of the West, will see it as an act of war against Islam”. The journal said that the real US motive was economic and that the concept of “preventive war” was highly dangerous. “If every country which feels threatened attacks first, there will be war without end on the entire planet,” it said.

[ruready4eternity]

Read this word from God:

"Flee from the midst of Babylon, and every one save his life! Do not be cut off in her iniquity, for this is the time of the Lord's
vengeance; He shall recompense her. Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord's hand, that made all the earth drunk. The nations drank
her wine; therefore the nations are deranged. Babylon has suddenly fallen and been destroyed, wail for her! Take balm for her pain;
perhaps she may be healed; we would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed. Forsake her and let us go everyone to his own
country; for her judgment reaches to heaven and is lifted up to the skies. Make the arrows bright! Gather the shields! The Lord has
raised up the spirit of the kings. For His plan is against Babylon to destroy it because it is the vengeance of the Lord, the
vengeance for His temple....... O you who dwell by many waters, abundant in treasures, your end has come."

[nmh]

"The person you are addressing is a senior FReeper. Ex-Snook has been here for about half a decade. "

Longevity proves nothing. Has nothing to do with his currect foolishness.

"You may not agree Snooks opinion, but he hardly a fool who belongs at the DU because of it."

Things change. He's now a foolish candidate for the DU.

[nmh]

I've learned to be cautious ... if possible, e-mail me privately on your interpretation of that. I suspect we are in agreement but wish to be sure.