Mohammed was a murderous, slave-holding pedophile. It wasn't a difficult question. If your daughter asks you whom you trust least, Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed, what would you say?
Posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:19 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
I was completely numb as I watched the videos of the attack on September 11. As the attack was investigated and we learned that the perpetrators were Islamic terrorists, I could not shake the thought that something in their religion made these attacks seem legitimate in their eyes.
So I started, very cautiously, to look into what Islam stands for and what it considers important. I did not want to jump to conclusions. I wanted to know the truth. As a Christian and a serious student of the Bible, I am familiar with the bloody passages of the Old Testament. For this reason I proceeded with caution in my research. My goal was to discover the truth about Islam. My research did include some limited reading of the Qur'an (known in the West as the Koran), but it mainly consisted of reading and listening to people who were very knowledgeable of the religion.
First of all, in order to understand Muslims we need to know what they think of Allah, and we need to look at their worldview. We need to understand moderate Muslims, but we also need an understanding of the radical point of view.
Dr. Samuel Schlorff, an expert on Islam with Arab World Ministries, has written an excellent paper on the religion. He makes a scholarly comparison between Christianity and Islam. Much of the information used in this article regarding the history of Islam was drawn from this paper.
Here are some key points of Islamic theology:
1. Allah is Absolutely Transcendent
Allah is unlike anything that exists. This means that Allah is completely mysterious. Muslims believe that they can know the truth about him, but they can't have any knowledge of him as a person. He is a distant god who lets only his will be known.
2. Divine Guidance
Muslims believe the Qur'an offers guidance for living life and it is usually referred to as "a guidance and mercy for believers." (Sura 27:77) Their law (the Shari'ah) consists of the Qur'an as well as other materials.
3. Islam is from Heaven
The Qur'an describes its revelation as a "sending down" of material from a heavenly being. Because it came in the Arabic language, it is referred to as a heavenly language. From this idea stems the thought that an Islamic community is of heavenly origin. Dr. Nabil Jabur was interviewed recently on Moody radio. He is the author of the book The Rumbling Volcano, which deals with radical Islam. He states that the Qur'an is comprised of recitations given by Muhammad, which Muslims believe came from Allah for specific situations. Thus, when Muhammad was experiencing a tranquil period in his life, the tolerant recitations came forth. When he was having problems with three Jewish tribes, the militant recitations came forth. The Qur'an teaches both peace and war.
Some verses dealing with tolerance are:
Sura 2:5-6 - There is no compulsion in religion.
Sura 5:82 - The nearest in affection to the believer are those who say we are Christian.
Dr. Jabur stated. "When only one side of the Qur'an is presented alone, that is not the truth."
4. A Community in Submission
The Islamic view of the world is that man is inherently good. If man is depraved by society, then any government can create a perfect society by enforcing Islamic law. Muhammad was the head of state of Medina, which Muslims believe was a perfect society. This form of Islamic government is considered by Muslims to be an example of living in true submission to divine law. This degree of submission is greater than any that exists outside of Islam. For Muslims such a community represents the kingdom of Allah on earth. They believe the future of Islam is to dominate the whole House of War (which is how they refer to the entire non-Muslim world) until it is controlled by an Islamic state. The ultimate goal is that the entire world be under Islamic law.
What does the word Islam mean? We have been told, that Islam is related to the Arabic word meaning "peace." This is partially accurate, except that the word means a specific kind of peace. A more accurate translation is "surrender" or "submission." It describes the calm that exists when a vanquished soldier lays down his arms in submission. Dr. Schlorff states, "The truth is that there is another side to Islam, a side that embraces violence 'in the way of Allah.'"
Sura 2:216 - Fighting is prescribed for you.
Sura 2:190-192 - Fight in the cause of god, those who fight you enslave them. Fight them until there is no more persecution and oppression and there prevails justice and faith in god.
Sura 9:5 - Fight and enslave infidels.
During his interview Dr. Jabur was asked what the typical Muslim would think of Osama bin Laden. Would they approve or disapprove of what he is doing? He stated that it would be possible for religious Muslims to have either opinion. Some are embarrassed by what bin Laden is doing. Others think that grievances which have existed for years have come to a head in a justified violent retaliation.
Dr. Jabur tried to illuminate the meaning of a phrase which is used by Muslims and which has not been explained to us. Jihad does not mean holy war. Jihad means "striving for god." It comes in three degrees: 1) Striving against sin in one's own life; 2) The act of motivating others to do good; and 3) Using violent means to stop a wrong act is justifiable if necessary. This third degree is the one with which we are most familiar.
After Muhammad died in Medina he was succeeded by four caliphs who ruled in his place. (A caliph is "one who comes after.") The leadership of Muhammad's Islamic society was divided. Sunnis accept that all four were legitimate. Shi'ites believe that only one, Ali, was the rightful successor. The result has been a division within the Muslim world pertaining to Islamic law and spiritual authority. That is why we do not have a single Muslim leader to whom the world can appeal to stand up and lead the Muslims of the world away from bin Laden.
Shortly after the Attack, Chuck Colson brought up some very interesting points on his radio show, Breakpoint. He stated that due to the lack of widely recognized Islamic leadership, bin Laden is attempting to unify the radical Muslims living in moderate Muslim states. He would like nothing more than to have them overthrow those states so that he can unify them and install himself as the leader of one large radical Islamic nation, and wage war against the West. As evidence of this, he pointed out that bin Laden has not shown much interest in the Palestinians in the past. Now he is speaking out in their behalf in order to gain their support.
Of course most Muslims do not support such violence as terrorism. However watching a Muslim country being bombed day after day might change the minds of even the most moderate and cause them to support bin Laden. Perhaps that is the plan: Goad Muslims into hating the West so much that anything goes. The Qur'an supports both violence and peace. They may think that they can use violence now and then have peace on their own terms later
"The problem is that the radical Islamist will just as soon kill John Q. Muslim for his tolerance as kill you and me for our infidelity."
Exactly, which is why John Q. Muslim needs to wake up and take a side...soon.
If the strrife continues, we will need to rid the world of Radical Islam, and John Q. Muslim will find himself caught between a crescent moon and a US Marine, and neither will give him quarter.
Mohammed was a murderous, slave-holding pedophile. It wasn't a difficult question. If your daughter asks you whom you trust least, Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed, what would you say?
They are peaceful because they reject the violent text that is plainly there. The weakness of their position is that they are vulnerable to being labeled as "pseudo-Muslims" and apostates, and they know it. The peaceful "get along" passages of the Quor'an were written during the Medina period, when Mohammod had little power. The more violent Surrahs were written during the Mecca period, when he did have power. In Islamic circles, the latter passages revise and replace the earlier passages.
What you refer to as "Islamo-fascists" I call "Islamic fundamentalists" or "Ultra-Orthodox Muslims". Just as the Klan held a continuum of viewpoints, from the lynchers to those who just stood around at cross-burnings, so does Islamicism have a continuum of viewpoints, from the Jihaadists to the "moderates". You could be a Klansman if you did not personally take part in lynchings, but not if you informed on fellow Klansmen. Similarly, you can be a Muslim in good standing even if you are personally not willing to take violent action, but NOT if you attack fellow Muslims for the sake of non-Muslims, or if you inform on Muslims Jihaadists to non_muslim authorities
To me, a "good" Muslim is somebody who considers himself an American first, and a Muslim second -- somebody who would not tolerate Muslim radicals' attack on fellow Americans. If he meets those criteria, then I have no problem with him. But he would not be considered a Muslim by his fellow Muslims
"If your daughter asks you whom you trust least, Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed, what would you say?"
I'd say, what are you doing dating dead men.
There are Christians I wouldn't trust, there are Jews I would't trust, and there are Muslims I wouldn't trust.
What you are trying to get me to do is to prejudge a person that I don't know, based on the actions of others.
Can't you get it through your head that I don't do that? I don't do it based on religion, I don't do it based on race, I don't do it based on nationality, I don't do it based on ethnicity...
If ask me whether I would trust my Muslim neighbor's son over a guy who is a member of the Ku Klux Klan, Christian Identity, Aryan Nations, 11th Hour Remnant Messenger, Aryan Brotherhood, or Neo-Nazion, I will pick my next-door neighbor's son.
Would you rather see your daughter date a member of Christian Identity, or Aryan Nation over a Muslim?
For the most part, the violence that I see in the Quor'an is all about fighting back oppressors, or people who would try by force to turn Muslims away from Islam.
I know, it's ancient history, I mean, Waco was damned near ten years ago, wasn't it?
That's it in a nutshell!
"Jesus isn't dead my friend..."
You understood what I was saying, I don't require instructions in Christian beliefs.
It's a ridiculous question Saber, and a red herring. I would not trust my son with a whole bunch of priests and rabbis, does that say something about the religion, or does it say something about the men involved?
Now my question to you, would you trust your daughter to a moderate Muslim, or a member of Christian Identity?
No, I'm trying to get you to address the evil nature of Mohammed, the founder of Islam.
Anyone who puts forth the proposition that bin Laden and the terrorists have twisted true Islam has an intellectual obligation to confront the truth about it's murderous founder, in whose footsteps they follow.
Are there moderate Muslims? Sure. Are they at all like Mohammed? No.
Would the world be a worse or better place if Islamic moderates sought to emulate Mohammed?
No. It would be worse, much worse. True Islam is evil, because its founder was evil.
Where does that leave us? Do we deny them the First Amendment rights available to eveyone in America, including Nazis and Klansmen? Of course not. However, we shouldn't make contorted pretenses about the true nature of Islam, coddle it, say that "Islam means peace," or say that the Koran is also "God's word."
This is true not only in the present manifestations of Christianity and Mohameddanism, but in the moral character of Christ and lack of the same in Mohammed.
Even an atheist would rather have his neighbor emulate Jesus instead of Mohammed.
Will I be excommunicated? Will I be shunned? Will I be tarred and feathered Marvin?
There are people constantly trying to bring religion into this issue, from bin Laden to many in this forum, and I stand with those who realize that religion in this case, is a tool to manipulate the masses.
I am perfectly at ease with my religion, and being "exposed" doesn't scare me, my faith is in Jesus, for He alone know what's in my heart.
What others may say means very little to me.
Let me tell you about those who may want to expose me for my "non-Christian perspective"...I forgive them.
"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."---Matthew 6:15
And I was not talking about the Crusades Marvin, I was talking about this:
"What takes place after the Rapture?""After The Rapture, God will begin executing judgments against unbelievers, during a period called the Tribulation. At the end of the Tribulation all nations will attack Israel, and Jesus Christ will physically return, leading the armies of heaven. At the Battle of Armeggedon they will destroy everyone who is not a believer. Then Satan will be bound, and Jesus will set up the Millennial Kingdom, headquartered in Jerusalem. Jesus and the saints will rule over the nations of the Earth for a thousand years. During this period there will be people born who are not loyal to Christ. However, it usually will not be obvious. Therefore, at the end of the thousand-year period, God will release Satan and let him tempt those who inhabit the Earth. A large group will take up arms against the Lord and be defeated. Then, Christ will judge all who have ever lived, giving rewards to some and punishment to others. Those who were "destroyed" will be cast into the Lake of Fire, i.e., Hell. After that, God will destroy heaven and Earth because they have been polluted by sin. He will create a new heaven and a new Earth, put those who were saved on the new Earth, and rule it forever."---Source.
Either religion will destroy the non-believers at one time or another.
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