CNN: Apache helicopters shot up in Republican Guard attack

CNN live ^ | March 23, 2003 | cnn

[mikegi]

Live report from Karl Penhaul after Apache choppers attacked Republican Guards near Karbala (sp?). This is north of Najaf and WSW 70mi of Baghdad.

He reports that our Apaches were shot up pretty bad. The IRG put up a "wall" of AAA. After returning to base, Apaches were "strewn around" instead of being parked neatly. He wouldn't confirm that all our Apaches made it back.

[PokeyJoe]

"Hey, Abul, did you see that hot chick on the side of the road? I think she was smiling at us. hey... what's that odd looking projectile that is headed for our Iraqi girl magnet tank? It looks like a missle... Quick... throw out the beer and act natural, like you're at a baseball game eating a hot dog ...."

[Arkinsaw]

It sounds like they have Republican guard sprinkled all over the country and not just concentrated in a few places. Meanwhile we are speeding northward and leaving enemy in our rear, who can then harrass our supply lines. I think that could be a problem. Its not real clear what happened to the republican guard here either. They just mention the apaches got shot up. I'm not sure I like this rolling start strategy. The "shock and awe" seems to be in Baghdad, but not anywhere else.

That will change now. I saw a video of a transport convoy leaving Kuwait today. It had a helicopter gunship in front and a helicopter gunship in the rear. That convoy will not get lost or take a wrong turn. That convoy will not be ambushed by a company of Republican Guard. If anybody gets within a couple of miles of that convoy they will be dead.

They have obviously already adjusted for what happened earlier today. Thats all I ask.

[UnChained]

1,000 pound bombs can take out large buildings, you don't need to waste that expensive a weapon on a tank!!! This war would cost trillions and trillions if you needed to use ordnance like that on a tank. A simple Hellfire missile will do -- and they did, to the tune of 70 enemy tanks.

I read once that the typical B52 payload "dumb" bombs cost less than a buck per pound during the Gulf War. They joked that they're cheaper than dropping hamburger. I imagine that any guided rocket costs substantially more.

[mikegi]

Here's a story on this from CNN.com:

---

SOUTHERN IRAQ (CNN) --U.S. Apache attack helicopters attacked Iraq's Republican Guard units early Monday in an intense firefight that lasted about three hours, CNN's Karl Penhaul reported.

Penhaul said the helicopters encountered a "heavy, heavy barrage" of anti-aircraft fire in the battle, about 60 miles south of Baghdad. He could not immediately say whether all of the U.S. helicopters returned safely.

The attack started sometime after midnight (4 p.m. ET) and lasted about three hours, said Penhaul, who was aboard a Black Hawk helicopter that served as the command and control craft of a unit of Apache attack helicopters. The helicopter in which Penhaul was riding was about 15-20 miles from the scene of the strike.

The Apache unit went up against the 2nd Armored Brigade of the elite Medina Division, which is part of the Republican Guard, the troops most loyal to Saddam Hussein, Penhaul said. They also attacked positions between Karbala and Hillah, which straddle the Euphrates River south of Baghdad.

Stiff resistance
As the Apaches flew in, they encountered stiff resistance, he said.

Penhaul said he could not see the extent of the anti-aircraft fire, but the pilots of his helicopter reported the Republican Guard "laid up a heavy, heavy barrage."

Some of the U.S. aircraft flying in the mission reported taking fire.

Following the mission, aircraft returned to an undisclosed location farther south of the location of the attack, and Penhaul said he expected to learn more about the specific locations of the units targeted.

Some of the elements the Apaches tried to strike were Iraqi T-72 battle tanks, the most advanced tank used by the Iraqi forces. The Republican Guard was estimated to have at least 90 of those tanks, along with multiple pieces of field artillery and armored personnel carriers, Penhaul said.

Penhaul is embedded with the U.S. Army's V Corps, 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment.

[Arkinsaw]

You got any idea how many we would have to drop to wipe out those tanks?

We aren't talking about bombers taking out tanks!!!!!! We are talking about bombers taking out AAA and crews so the Apaches won't get chewed up so bad getting to the tanks they are protecting.

[PokeyJoe]

Aaron Brown should be named "Airhead Brown"

He's one enchilada shy of a mexican plate.

[John H K]

Sorry, misformated, should have previewed, I'm just monumentally POed today.

It sounds like they have Republican guard sprinkled all over the country and not just concentrated in a few places. Meanwhile we are speeding northward and leaving enemy in our rear, who can then harrass our supply lines. I think that could be a problem.

Like I said before on another thread, stuff like this just sets Patton spinning in his grave at 5,000 RPM.

Why do you want to get more Americans killed? Because that's PRECISELY what you'll achieve if you stop the advance, and "consolidate" our positions, and start a giant bug-hunt for every hostile with a gun in the American rear, causing the war to last, oh, a good extra 3-6 weeks or so.

Audacity, audacity, ALWAYS audacity.

[kerosene]

You rang?

[cake_crumb]

"Its obvious that they tried to "shock and awe" the regime into collapsing"

It's obvious that YOU fell for the oldest psy ops trick in the book and then were lead by the media hyping of the new hit movie 'Shockanawe'. Sorry you were disappointed.

You've been here as long as I have. You are therefore a longtime FReeper and should know better than to make judgements based upon pure leftist media hype. Perhaps the military DID do a bad job of getting out the messages of our successes today, but our successes weren't hard to find if you hunt the news for all of the stories. I didn't have too hard a time sorting the successes out of hundreds of headlines spewing the same three stories over and over today.

The only real setback we had militarily was that dispicable piece run by the Terrorist News Network over and over. IMO, that shook the brass and caused them to get overcautious in laying out successful American and British ops. That's not a military failing; that's a failure of communication.

In everything else, we prevailed in the end. It's war. Our people know they may die. WE know that more of our people will die, but we also have to remember that a LOT more of the enemy will die.

It's too soon to make the judgements that you are making. Heck, it's too soon for the media to make the drooling pronouncements of imminent doom THEY are making.

I wasn't questioning your agenda...I wondered if you were a libertarian.

[wretchard]

This report is actually good news. A glance at the map will show that the 3rd ID has turned east three times now, each time further north, threatening to cross the Euprates. It crossed at Nasiryah, leaving the Marines to threaten to go up the Euphrates valley. Next at Najaf 160 km from Baghdad, where it took a chem factory, but it didn't storm the river crossing. Now it is hooking right again at Karbala, just 70 km from the capital. Is it the final turn? Well maybe not, the river barriers thin out past the lakes, some 30 km further on.

But the IRG has to challenge, even at the risk of its own destruction. Right now that IRG division is dust and the Iraqis have no choice but to reinforce or fall back. That's exactly what Tommy Franks wants. Reinforce and they weaken the area past the lakes. Retreat and they may push on. Remember that the 101st hasn't been committed yet, nor the heavy British armor.

The Iraqi army is in a desperate situation.

[woodyinscc]

And it probably would have without all the anti-administration demostrations being so well covered by our own traitoruous Hollywood media, along with the axis of weasels, Dasshole & Pillowsi along with that Demonicrat jerk from Michigan, Sean Penncilneck, the U.N., etc., etc.!!!

The next thing we are going to hear from the left wing( there is no bias) press is that Clinton saved Kosovo against the Serbs and never lost a man. It's coming folks, you better believe it's coming!!

[freebilly]

Let's get real here, people. B-52's have no capability against enemy armor.

Let's take out the AA first, then send in the Apaches....

[Kevin Curry]

Apaches don't attack an attacking tank force from behind, they attack from behind a terrain feature.

A few years ago I was driving from Arizona toward Las Vegas and saw an Apache (obviously on a training mission) suddenly pop up from behind a small hill about 20 yards away, pause for a second or three, and drop down just as quickly. I wasn't driving, so I craned my neck and looked through the back window to see if I could spy the Apache as it negotiated the terrain. Nothing. It had simply disappeared.

I was impressed.

[rivercat]

Hoo-ah! Now you're talkin'. The OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. This is my favorite attack helicopter. Cheap, easy to maintain, versatile, and packs a nice punch. Thanks for the pic!

[MEG33]

But sometimes tiresome.

[SevenDaysInMay]

Our losses are at skirmish levels only. Media reports say major battles - between company levels. Saddamn's R.G. is practiced at killing hundreds of thousands of Iranians and X41 let them run and hide. As at Stalin's Kursk, Iraqi defenses are in depth. They pray that we are PC fools and won't engage them in strength.

This is no sanitary battle. We can lose hundreds or thousands when the real battle for Bagdad begins. Our men will kick the H out of 'em. Our hearts will ache for our men killed and maimed, but we will kill tens of thousands more and turn to ash the monuments to Saddamn's military greatness. Our troops will win this battle, but we civilians will win this war only if we support our volunteer troops.

We must stop making nice to these cut-throats. Surrenders must be taken naked to barbed wire camps. No bombs. No guns. No knives. Orange EPW jumpsuits should ID the quitters until peace is established. What we are practicing now is PC.

The 507th bears witness to PC madness. Our desecrated bear witness to Islamic civilization.

[neutrino]

At least Baghdad. And then Tikrit. It is time to give Iraq a real understanding of the term "Shock and Awe".

[vbmoneyspender]

Check this with dcam, but I believe the Apaches killed more tanks in Gulf War I than any other type of aircraft, including the A-10s. Also with regard to Stavka2, he is a disgruntled Russkie who can't stand the idea that Russia lost the cold war. You can tell this from the fact that the headquarters for the Red Army is known as, you guessed it, 'Stavka'.

[rivercat]

Yep, that's what we heard. But, the sand did give the Apache a lot of trouble. The Cobra actually had a better sortie rate than the Apache in Gulf War I.

[nomad]

I had an idea about those JDAMs. What if we put encoded homing beacons on some of the JDAMS, activated when dropped, then simple seeker heads on the rest of the load of weapons, comprised of dumb bombs, and then sent in B52s with say, 25% of there bomb loads comprised of JDAMS, the rest seeker bombs, could be a cheap way to accurately obliterate targets from very high altitude?