CNN: Apache helicopters shot up in Republican Guard attack

CNN live ^ | March 23, 2003 | cnn

[mikegi]

Live report from Karl Penhaul after Apache choppers attacked Republican Guards near Karbala (sp?). This is north of Najaf and WSW 70mi of Baghdad.

He reports that our Apaches were shot up pretty bad. The IRG put up a "wall" of AAA. After returning to base, Apaches were "strewn around" instead of being parked neatly. He wouldn't confirm that all our Apaches made it back.

[republicanwizard]

Good Point! LOL!

[snooker]

Bombs don't make good tank busters. tanks move, bombs can't handle that. To kill tanks and vehicles you want hellfires.

A-10s do a nice job killing tanks. They use hellfires as well. Plus their 30mm gun chews tanks up nicely.

but leave the bombs at home when going after tanks.

Unless you have a moab, but a lumbering cargo plane has to deliver it. Tanks might have anti-aircraft missles mixed in with the anti-aircraft guns.

snooker

[CrimeOf73]

Thanks.

tomorrow's briefing from Qatar.

Is that available online anyware, in transcript, video or audio form? I'd prefer to see the original, rather than the media-filtered version.

[JSteff]

Where are the A-10's
This is exactly their type of game. I know that for some reason the Air Force does not like them, but they were effective and do boost the morale of the troops. They totally destroy the morale of the enemy... not to mention their vehicles.

[rivercat]

Enough bickering, already. Yes, all helicopters are easy to shoot down. But, only if they are attacked unexpectedly. I'm now going to dispel some of these rumors.

How many of you have ever seen how our attack helicopters work? They will fly in small groups, accompanied by scout helicopters(usually OH-58s). It is rare for more than one helicopter to be visible at a time. They pop up and down and share information electronically. If an Apache launches a Hellfire, depending on the mode (in this case LOAL (Lock On After Launch)), the Hellfire will climb, nose over and start looking for a properly coded laser splash. This laser splash can come from any of their counterparts. So, they can continue to pop up and down and pass off the target, thus reducing exposure. It is a truly amazing dance in the sky to witness.

FYI... I am a former Army Aircraft Armament Platoon Sergeant. I've seen these manuevers with Cobras(AH-1), Kiowa Warriors(OH-58D), and the Apache(AH-64).

[virgil]

It sounds like they have Republican guard sprinkled all over the country and not just concentrated in a few places. Meanwhile we are speeding northward and leaving enemy in our rear, who can then harrass our supply lines. I think that could be a problem. Its not real clear what happened to the republican guard here either. They just mention the apaches got shot up. I'm not sure I like this rolling start strategy. The "shock and awe" seems to be in Baghdad, but not anywhere else.

[kerosene]

"Hey, Mohammed, what's that thing headed toward our tank?"

[Scott from the Left Coast]

I am not aware that it (the daily briefing) is posted here, but it might be.

[dvwjr]

No, we did not beat the British by hiding behind bushes and trees... You are thinking of Lexinton and Concord.

We beat the British by learning and modifying the linear infantry tactics of the day.


dvwjr

[John H K]

Well, always takes me a little while to sort out strange beliefs on FR (took me a while to figure out the various reasons why people WANTED more terrorist attacks on the US and got very upset when there weren't a lot).....

Still mulling over the defeatist agreeing with the media today; haven't TOTALLY figured it out....

One PORTION of it (not all of it) is the people that literally want the entire country of Iraq nuked or carpet bombed and they're being defeatist in hopes it supports their argument in favor of doing so; probably the same people that thought that piece of s*** Calley was a hero at My Lai.

But mainly is that there was a poor job of "expectation management" in general..I don't know if it was the administration, really...not certain what they could have done.

But as we all know, if, say, a party goes into an election expecting to pick up 20 seats in the House and they only gain 10 seats, it's interpreted as a disaster for the party picking up "only" 10 seats. You want to try to get the media to expect your party to pick up 5 seats if there are a lot of pollsters saying you'll pick up 20.

And contributing to the "expectation management" problem is the utter ignorance of military history of most people. Things like the Friction of War that have been understood for decades are totally new concepts to such people. These are the people "shocked" that a column could take a wrong turn and get captured.

I'm a very intelligent person that loves maps and knows where I am, and driving in unfamiliar areas I've taken wrong turns; so has everyone else on this thread. Except when I do it, I get to where I'm going five minutes later; in Iraq, you're killed or captured.

[r9etb]

Let's face it. Most of these media people are probably scared spitless and never seen real battle. Hyperbole is going to rule.

To be fair, most of the soldiers they're with had never seen real battle, either. But the soldiers have trained for it for months or years, not to mention having had that time to steel themselves for the possibility of real battle. The reporters have not -- it's a huge shift in reality for them.

[Arkinsaw]

I'm very suspicious when I hear people criticize a President's handling of a war and say that he is thinking of politics first. It reminds me of Northern Democrats during the Civil War.

He isn't thinking of politics at all. They thought that they could break the back of the regime, they thought that opposition would be light. Thats why they have gone with a fairly "light" battle plan.

If it had worked we would all be screaming genius. But it didn't. Thats war. I am very confident that they will now change the battle plan to a conventional "destroy the army" battle plan. I have no doubt about it. They just gave the original plan a day too long to work.

[Thane_Banquo]

Good Point! LOL!

Haha! I thought it was, too. Fellow FReepers must forgive me if I subscribe to the George Patton school of organized warfare. War is terrible, but trying to make it less terrible can often postpone the inevitable destruction it brings. Kill them until they fall to their knees. It saves lives in the long run.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

Thank you, actually when I was talking about "damn easy to shoot down" I was talking about a B-52 attempting to provide close ground support -- not about the Apache.

[Arkinsaw]

but leave the bombs at home when going after tanks.

The tanks did not shoot up the Apaches, the AAA did. Don't leave the bombs at home when going after AAA to clear the way for the Apaches to get to the tanks.

[Servant of the Nine]

Screw precision bombing. Just drop a lot of the good old big stupid bombs on them.

You got any idea how many we would have to drop to wipe out those tanks? You have any idea how many days it would take all our bombers to carry that many dumb bombs?

So9

[LdSentinal]

The "shock and awe" seems to be in Baghdad, but not anywhere else.

Hundreds of sorties per night are launched. "Shock and awe" is happening all over the country.

[freepersup]

Correction- I've been on board a C-141 when 3 pallets of vehicles daisy chained together were dropped by parachute. Reason I know: (we) parachute riggers had just heavy drop rigged the loads at Ft. Lee, Virginia, and dropped the loads at Ft. Pickett, Virginia, at Blackstone (drop zone). Actually it was done all the time, along with C-130's.

The C-17 has become the newest workhorse for air drops. Out in Yuma Proving Ground, Yuma, Az., airborne heavy drop testing is conducted to establish protocol for air dropping equipment and supplies out of allied aircraft, establishing weight limits and parachute rigging configurations.

What was used when I was in the airborne forces, was a large 'sled' that was designed to accept (add on) weights, in order to push the maximum load limit for airdrops, in ongoing experimental tests.

Airborne heavy drop protocol exists for C-5's, C-141's, C-130's, C-17's (relatively new), & even as late as 1982 when I was first in the Army, C-123's.

[John H K]

It sounds like they have Republican guard sprinkled all over the country and not just concentrated in a few places. Meanwhile we are speeding northward and leaving enemy in our rear, who can then harrass our supply lines. I think that could be a problem.
Like I said before on another thread, you've just set Patton spinning in his grave at 5,000 RPM.

Why do you want to get more Americans killed? Because that's PRECISELY what you'll achieve if you stop the advance, and "consolidate" our positions, and start a giant bug-hunt for every hostile with a gun in the American rear, causing the war to last, oh, a good extra 3-6 weeks or so.

Audacity, audacity, ALWAYS audacity.

[Spruce]

As I posted earlier, I caught the tail-end of this piece. The reporter is embedded with the 3ID. I know that I heard the reporter quote the commander as saying 70 T-72s where destroyed. This was not just a squadron of Apaches going in alone. It was a combined-arms engagement. Unfortunately the reporters do not understand, AT ALL, what they are witnessing. That is a HUGE problem.
These stupid friggin talking-heads are truly shocked and awed. They are panicking and blustering.