Elizabeth Smart Reuninted with Her Mother**picture***

THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE ^ | March 13, 2003 | Elizabeth Neff

[Kentucky]

Police found Elizabeth Smart alive and in the company of a transient panhandler Wednesday, some nine months after she disappeared from her Salt Lake City home. Sandy police located Elizabeth in the suburb with Brian David Mitchell, who had worked odd jobs for the Smarts for five hours in November 2001 and was wanted for questioning. Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse said investigators are convinced Elizabeth was kidnapped, and released the name of Wanda Eileen Barzee as a second suspect in the crime.

[Lib Buster]

Utah does have the guilty but insane plea. Excellent news. At least they won't be out victimizing the masses anymore.

[Illbay]

My theory is that comments like this reflect the tendency noted by Rush Limbaugh, that people love to "bash" those who appear to be affluent, stable and happy.

It is the weapon that Democrat/demagogues use to whip up resentment against "the rich" (defined as anyone who has more than you do), and those here on FR are not immune, unfortunately.

[Lael]

I was quite voluptuous looking at age 10; by age 11 I wore the largest bra size I've ever worn (have never hit that size again); by my late 20's I weighed 102 pounds, fit girls' size 12 clothes perfectly, and had no real need for a bra at all. Guess what happened in between those two ages?

Thank you...and since you took the trouble to write a serious reply to my very serious post, I will answer.

You posted NOTHING about the shape of your jaw, the center of gravity of your body, your hairline, and the length of your eyebrows. Of course, the calcium content of your spine is NOT obvious from a photograph, and I did not take that into consideration with respect to the Smart situation. The rest is, of course, obvious , since 'before' and 'after' photographs have been widely circulated. I merely split the screen, and opened two copies of a specialized photo editing program and did a point by point comparison.

For your edification, Milton Erickson was not 'just a shrink'. Since the U. S. Government was so indebted to him for his still classified techniques for interrogating prisoners of war, behind the scenes efforts were made to derail an ongoing effort by the AMA to have Erickson's Medical Licence lifted for doing actual physiological medicine-by-hypnosis.

Just in time to stop the proceedings, the British Medical Association announced in 1954 that Hypnosis was RECOMMENDED for things that Erickson was doing.

His case was dropped. The successor to the Office of Strategic Services protects its own.

[Utah Girl]

I'd forgotten about that accusation, the ONLY reason that so many people were looking for Elizabeth was because her family was so wealthy. Ah, the memories of those insane theories on the threads last summer.

[rintense]

There was some special on an HBO channel last night, and I stopped to watch it. Some woman asked a room full of parents if they considered it wrong for their teens to have sex. Most said yes. Well then the lady redefined 'sex' on a scale of minor things like holding hands, to the other end which is full-on sex. She then reasked the question, and all the parents said no.

If this isn't a typical liberal tactic, I don't know what is! If you don't like the answer, redefine something to get the answer you want. Guess we can blame Clinton's 'oral sex isn't sex' for this one too.

[Illbay]

John Gibson was on Shepherd Smith's program on Fox News just awhile ago. He mentioned that he as a reporter had personally covered three other cases like this.

He recalled a couple of them where the victim "could" have gotten to a telephone and called for help, but inexplicably didn't. He said that the abductor is naturally skilled in "cowing" the victim, making him feel helpless and paralyzed with fear so that even if the occasion presents itself they "chicken out" and don't avail themselves of it.

Those who assume that there is "something fishy" about this because Elizabeth could have gotten away are just ignorant. They know nothing of the psychology of situations like this.

Anyone who doubts it, recall that millions of Jews behaved like obedient cattle right up to the time the Nazis slaughtered them.

Have you ever seen the photos of Baba Yar, where they lined these people up over mass graves, naked, men and women, and just machine gunned them?

Would YOU submit to that? You might be surprised.

[twigs]

Ed Smart said in the news conference today, that they made the conscious decision NOT to force Mary Katherine with questions. They just let her come up with her memories of the events without prompting, knowing that they would be more accurate that way.

Not only is that the right thing to do in the case of a child, as you point out, in the long run, it is more effective. You have to treat children differently than you would an adult. Given time, Mary Katherine did identify the perp, which ultimately lead to his capture. Seems to me that this family is doing just what is needed! Elizabeth is fortunately to have such loving parents1

[Illbay]

That said, Mr. Smart comes off as a bit of a nut,...

BASED ON WHAT?!?!?

These comments never fail to irk me because there IS nothing on which to base them, save one:

They had a normal family with both parents married to each other and living together, and a daughter got snatched from right out of her bedroom.

That seems to be the some total of the "suspicious nature" that they have exhibitted.

Some people need a license to WALK AROUND, much less drive.

[Illbay]

She tried to sneak into the house just a little while ago, but I got her!

I am in such a good mood that I let her off her one-week "grounding" a day early. She's now practicing her clarinet so that she can go next door and "hang out" with her best friend.

[Illbay]

Hey, d'you think we'll see some of the same names "supporting" Mitchell that "supported" David Westerfield?

[Catspaw]

Hey, d'you think we'll see some of the same names "supporting" Mitchell that "supported" David Westerfield?

GMTA. I was about ready to post that to you! I figure it'll be a thundering herd rushing to the defense of poor Emmanuel and his lovely bride, Wanda, just like Westerfield...oh, and I thought about the ever popular Brian & Ruth Christine. I know people root for the underdog, but this is ridiculous.

[GovernmentShrinker]

There are LOTS of other things that can affect "the shape of your jaw, the center of gravity of your body (trust me, mine launched upwards during the period I described), your hairline, and the length of your eyebrows": nutritional changes which have hormonal and other physiological effects, changes in amount and type of exercise, STRESS, and as far as eyebrows are concerned, plucking or lack thereof -- none of which you have any solid information about. Not to mention that all of the changes described will happen sooner or later regardless of "experience", though that would no doubt be one of many factors contributing to timing of changes.

While it not inappropriate to bring up generally relevant information such as Dr. Erickson's research, it IS inappropriate to make specific claims about this specific girl, claiming that it's "obvious" what she's been doing (and claiming she's been doing it for TWO YEARS, i.e. beginning long before her abduction). Dr. Erickson would laugh in your face if he could see the things you're claiming his research proves.

[Illbay]

This topic, and that of Danielle van Dam, have simply brought the most distinguished "experts" right out of the FR woodwork.

If it is true as they say, that there is a "thin line between genius and raving lunacy," I'd say we have some "borderline" Einsteins on these threads.

[P.O.E.]

There are big differences between "drifters" "bums" and the "mentally ill". Of course, the libs would like to call them all "homeless" to gain sympathy.

Decades ago it was acceptable to hire a hobo to do some chores. The mentally ill were mostly in hospitals, and the criminally insane were in jail or hospitals. Not all, of course, but enough to put the odds in your favor.

Similarly with hitch-hikers.

It would be much more compassionate to put more such people away. Institutions can be improved, and modern medicine and more humane options are available. The old "snake pit" demagoguery is a red herring.

However, with the extreme politicization of the judiciary, I'm not sure I'd trust our current system to decide who was a candidate to be involuntarily committed.

[Freedom2specul8]

You guys, now what you've posted is just flame bait. The DW trial is NOTHING like this one.. and it's not fair for you to ask that or even compare it. :(

[Catspaw]

This topic, and that of Danielle van Dam, have simply brought the most distinguished "experts" right out of the FR woodwork.

I thought of it as "Angry Wingnuts on Parade." It's going to be fwap fwap time if this goes to trial.

[Freedom2specul8]

On the other hand, i have to question why there are people who claim a young girl chose to be with her captor for 9 months. That's just sick.

[Catspaw]

Kim, the suspects aren't even under arrest--they're being held on "suspicion of aggravated kidnapping"--and what I've heard so far is that she left voluntarily with the kidnappers, she stayed with them voluntarily, that her dad is weird, does she look pregnant, that her dad/family had child porn on his computer, that there's something fishy about this case, the dad's voice sounds funny, it's her mom's fault for inviting Mitchell into her home, that Mary Catherine made it up...and that's just for starters. You can bet it's going to be very difficult for not only Elizabeth Smart, her parents and siblings and the rest of her extended family, once the conspiracy theorists go into full-tilt boogie.

[Catspaw]

On the other hand, i have to question why there are people who claim a young girl chose to be with her captor for 9 months. That's just sick.

Yes it is, but it doesn't stop the speculation, does it?

[Freedom2specul8]

If I were you, I'd spend more time researching the works of folks who have dealt with cult victims...