REPOST: How Tyranny Came to America [re: Constitutionalism 101]

Constitution Party / www.constitutionparty.org ^ | 2000 | Joseph Sobran

[nicollo]

I thought I'd already kicked Sobran's ass on this thread:

The Myth of 'Limited Government

Fine, have some more cyanide...

[Southack]

"Funny how we survived & read that very same constitution with those very same words for ~200 years without ANY welfare state."

200 years? Nonsense. The U.S. has given out soldiers' pensions since at least 1865, and possibly even prior to that date.

[Southack]

"what people do who *like* it a little TOO much is to pretend the phrase "general welfare of the United States" actually says "specific welfare of each of the people" and pretend to believe that the Founding Fathers intended to create a Borg state."

Yawn...

Are you completely dismissing *any* meaning from the general welfare phrase in our Constitution, or are you one of the last 3 intellectually honest libertarians willing to actually post the *specific* meaning that you ascribe to the phrase "general welfare"?

[iconoclast]

BUMP!

[iconoclast]

Would that everyone could comprehend what is clearly laid out here. Thanks.

Amen

Joe Sobran is truly an American treasure.

[iconoclast]

Mindless pseudointellectual onanism.

I was wondering how long it would take for a open-mouth-breathing, bush-bot, neo-con to show up.

[iconoclast]

I thought I'd already kicked Sobran's ass on this thread:

LOL!

You couldn't carry Joe's jockstrap much less kick his his ass!

[nicollo]

Carry his jockstrap? I'll leave that to you...

[iconoclast]

Carry his jockstrap? I'll leave that to you...

Is the the term new to you?

[nicollo]

As of 1904, veteran pensions (aka welfare for Blue vets) constituted the largest single item in the Federal budget.

[iconoclast]

You've been trying to distinguish between paleo's and neo's .. here's a good thread for you.

[Gumption]

Wouldn't reading in the "general welfare clause" as you and all leftists do make the central governments constitutional powers UNlimited? I thought the constitution limited the powers of the central government but I can't think of one single federal program, real or imagined, that wouldn't come under the all encompassing "general welfare clause". Can you?

And when after painstakingly listing the powers granted to the central government (such as provide post roads, coining money, etc.) then saying "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers ", did you think the foregoing powers means all the ones specifically listed and any other power under the sun? I don't think so either. Maybe you should reconsider.

[Yeti]

willing to actually post the *specific* meaning that you ascribe to the phrase "general welfare"?

I have not asserted an inerpretation of its meaning, you have(albeit by insinuation). I have refuted your implication by pointing out that the meaning of the words you quoted is not as you imply.

"General welfare of the United States" does not equal making sure Jane Doe gets a check every month. In fact, it does not even say "general welfare of the People of the United States."

Just the welfare(meaning well-being) of the nation, not "welfare" as recently redefined to mean money for poor people. The word didn't even have that meaning when the document was composed.

If you want a hint, both this and the interstate commerce clause are more appropriately applicable to things like interstate highways and maybe meteorological sevices, things like that. Things which contribute to the general welfare of the nation.

[Gumption]

There is no "general welfare clause" in the Constitution. That is something the leftists use to support
their socialistic agenda.

[Captain Beyond]

Bump

[Lady Eileen]

bump.....thanks for the post.

The Founders believed that our rights come from God, and the government’s powers come from us.

Great tag line.

[Yeti]

There is no "general welfare clause" in the Constitution.

Yes, I noticed that he said "General welfare phrase" not clause. I am not a constitutional scholar, so I don't know, but I wonder if there is some significance to his choice of words.

[f.Christian]

pr1 ...

good thing, that. I'm glad we have a Constitutional Republic, and not a democracy.


23 posted on 04/04/2003 8:05 AM PST by packrat01



fC ...

The constitution is amendable by a 2/3rds majority ...

democracy trumps the law // constitution ---

' mob ' rule -- 'science' ===> liberalism // EVOLUTION !

more ...

Originally the word liberal meant social conservatives(no govt religion--none) who advocated growth and progress---mostly technological(knowledge being absolute/unchanging)based on law--reality... UNDER GOD---the nature of GOD/man/govt. does not change.

LC...

Now I follow, thank you. Actually, I don't disagree with this at all since I see the left as abandoning the uncertianty of democracy and majority rule (( constitutional // law ))* * for the assurance technocracy and expert rule (( dictatorship // tyranny ))* * .

152 posted on 9/10/02 12:17 PM Pacific by Liberal Classic

... * * ... my additions !

[Gumption]

"I am not a constitutional scholar"

Me neither, but I know when someone is trying to tell me that a document written, and argued over, for the specific purpose of LIMITING the powers it gives to the federal government is actually an UNlimited grant of power to the federal government, they are trying to convince me of a falsehood.

[Sofa King]

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

"General welfare" does not mean "whatever you feel like". First off, "general welfare of the United States" means the United States as a whole. Taking from half the population and giving it to the other half is not helping the nation as a whole. Second off, the enumerated power here is the ability to tax, not the power to care for the general welfare of the nation. In other words, the government uses it's enumerated powers to work for the general welfare of the nation- and pays for it with the taxes collected as allowed for by this clause.