Author Frank Schaeffer to speak on his Orthodox faith

modbee.com ^ | February 22, 2003 @ 05:45:12 AM PST | AMY WHITE

[Destro]

Frank Schaeffer, son of the late renowned Christian theologian Francis Schaeffer, will be in Modesto next weekend to discuss the Orthodox church and faith. Schaeffer holds a photo of his son, John, a Marine.

Author Frank Schaeffer will speak at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Modesto next Saturday on the historic Orthodox tradition and his conversion to the Orthodox faith.

[TPartyType]

I haven't had a hug from you in the longest time! (*sigh* of contentment . . .)

[TPartyType]

Mary, what was your experience in a "liturgical church?" I don't intend this to come off sarcastic, so please don't take it that way, but I think "balanced charismatic church" is an oxymoron. You may have found one, I won't deny that possibility, but in my experience, charismatic churches lack balance, by definition. For one thing, they don't balance law and gospel, for another, they don't balance the demands of the world with the demands of God's Kingdom (tendency toward "super-spirituality") and they don't generally balance the physical, emotional and spiritual dimensions of life very well.

You're right, when it comes down to it, "different strokes for different folks." But I had hoped to dialogue with some people about what each approach has to offer so that, if some fundamentalist FReeper somewhere is searching for a different kind of faith walk I can convince them that organized religion is not all just a bunch of hypocrites who put their dollar in the plate on Sunday and live like the devil the rest of the week. Traditional Christianity has much to offer, and I would think conservatives would find much to their liking "over here."

I bet you'd like to convince some of us to come "over there," wouldn't you? So . . . make your case! :o) FRegards.

[Marysecretary]

I was Episcopalian much of my younger life. I loved singing in the choir, etc. I've been a fundamental Baptist and enjoyed that, too. But when I was exposed to the charismatic movement, WOW. I know that movement wasn't balanced. It was more signs and wonders (which I needed at that time in my life). Now I believe it's more bible based, at least ours is. My pastor is a former Catholic, as is my husband, and he is cautious about being too "charismaniac." Our church was American Baptist before he came and we are now a spirit filled church, although still in the AB conference. It's not emotion or commotion. We have three pastors who hear what God is saying and they preach it and live it. Our worship team is dedicated and they walk the walk--something you have to do when you're in leadership.

We ARE different from a lot of, say, Assembly of God churches because our base is Baptist. But, our old Baptist ladies love the church and I've seen so much growth in them even at their age. One is 92, still drives and bowls, and cooks for her four farmer sons. Amazing lady. I tell her she's my hero. We have a good balance of young and old and many families with good men at the head of them.

It really is a spiritually balanced church (yes, we even sing hymns!). God demands purity and holiness and righteousness and we have sermons that try to move us in that direction. Many of us just finished the Cleansing Stream seminar from Jack Hayford. It has been a fantastic experience for me. We dealt with a lot of spiritual issues that kept us back from serving God the way we should.

We aren't an "emotional" church at all. It's a joyful church, lots of singing, clapping, dancing, banners, and people truly want to be the best they can be. They're very loving and giving. We're mostly just blue collar folks but we can raise money better than anyone I know, through tithing and the giving of gifts. We have a good missionary focus as well and support a number of them. Our christian school is truly a school of excellence in all areas. Our teachers are dedicated and some have been there since it began, around 16 years ago. They don't make much money either.

We're scriptural in our beliefs. My pastor continually seeks for us to read the Word and to obey it.

I don't know if I've answered your questions so if you need to ask more, fire away. Maryxxx

[Alamo-Girl]

You're quite right, it's been waaay too long between hugs! So here's another {{{hug}}} and a *smooch* to boot!

[Pining_4_TX]

When the Second Coming happens and Jesus descends from the heavens and I snap his picture and venerate it did I just sin?

Wait a minute. You're telling me when Christ returns you're going to stand there with a camera? And, yes, if you venerate an object, a photo, while the real God is present, you will definitely be sinning. On the other hand, if you are a believer, at that time sin will be done away with. So, I guess you won't need that camera, eh? :)

[Destro]

veneration is not worship - look it up. You, for instance, venerate the bible. Jews kiss the Torah.

[crazykatz]

I walk to the icon of the Christ...I kiss the feet of Christ on the icon.... UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT I AM ABLE TO KISS THE ACTUAL FEET OF THE CHRIST IN PERSON. I am reminded of the Savior everytime I see the icon.

When I was a small child my beloved Grandmother, who lived with me, died... all I had to remind me of her was a small picture of her...which as a small child... I would kiss each night before going to sleep...

[crazykatz]

THIS IS 2003...commies in Russia are outta power... you can come out of the closet now. BOOOO!

[PJ-Comix]

How is it that a form of christianity that considers itself in "original" form squares the obsession with images (icons) in worship ...

Maybe they own stock in the Dollar Stores. Ever see the candles they sell there?

[BibChr]

I have heard that Prostants [sic] converting to Orthodoxy is a big trend now in theological circles. People ...cannot quite bring themselves to become Catholic, become Orthodox. It's a strange country we live in

Strange, indeed, but not unpredicted.

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 ESV

Dan
What Is Biblical Christianity?

[eleni121]

All well and good about Schaeffer and his beliefs about Christianity. As an Orthodox myself however I am frankly disappointed that the Greek Orthodox Archbishop did not offer a proclamation on the Sanctity of Life Day this year or any year. Why doesn't the Orthodox Orthodox speak out against legalized infanticide? If this isn't the moral question for our times what is?

I have asked and I keep getting told that we will bring it up at the Synod meeting bla bla...

One more thing - the Orthodox Church is honoring Sarbanes, senator from Maryland - a Demorat - who vote FOR partial birth abortion. Does that make sense?

[Keme]

Although Francis Schaeffer was moving away from Protestantism at the end of his life, he never converted. In fact, his last book was entitled "The Great Evangelical Disaster". Who know what would've happened had he stayed on this Earth a little longer.

Frank tells a story about how his father, at the end of his life, refused to stay at a Protestant hospital becaue they performed abortions there & instead stayed at the Catholic one across the street because they didn't. And every time he had some strength he'd go across the street & picket the hospital; such an amazing man.

[TPartyType]

WOW! I'm the luckiest guy at FR today! Another hug, a smootch AND a great, serious, thoughtful, revealing reply.

Thank you both. Mary, I can see from your post that you've had a very different experience than I, that you're very happy and fulfilled where you are, and that, were we to attempt a detailed dialogue about matters of faith, it would be way more detailed than I have time for!! HA! I've got a wife and kids, for crying out loud!

I'll just say this: When I got involved in a few charismatic churches, they were all run, basically, by disaffected, unaffiliated, pie-eyed youth who were idealists looking to rediscover, for themselves, the perfect new testament church. We tapped into all the "hot teachers," and we had truly dynamic worship and all that, but it was a very shallow group. Not much fruit, and definitely, not much fruit. The biggest lack, IMO, was peace.

Well, since the "kingdom of God is not food nor drink, but righteousness, peace and joy in the holy ghost," and my "fellowship" didn't seem to have a lot of peace (and I certainly wasn't experiencing much,) I decided the teachings were off. (And my reaction was atypical. Most of my friends in that church, when they found their joy and peace waning, realized they had to pray and fast more. To try harder. That's exhausting, over the long haul!)

To make a long story short, I found a church, the Lutheran Church, Missour Synod, that, first and foremost, introduced me to the distinction between law and gospel. Very liberating. Then, my last pastor was a liturgist, and very "confessional." He taught me the beauty of the ancient faith, with its engaging ritual, solid doctrine and traditions that bring a sense of rhythm to life that I find very satisfying. It's 180 degrees out from the "for the moment" very hip, very "now," very exciting, but very hubristic (in its contempt for tradition) religion I experienced 20 years ago. Liturgical worship is not very exciting in an emotional sense, but intellectual, and in terms of feeding one's soul, I find it VERY exciting!

So, that's what I'm talkin' 'bout, sister! It is my hope that my experience will hold out hope of "something more" for people who, unlike you, have been involved in "slap-happy" churches and have grown tired of it, but assume there's nothing better going on "out there" in mainline Christianity. I think there's a lot going on "out here." And I think the Orthodox church is a pretty happenin' place, too!

FReegards.

[TPartyType]

#47 is very touching, and I can relate to it very much. I moved recently and attend a new church. I think it's pathetic that, when I go to the Lord's table, each Sunday, there is no image of Christ upon which to focus. There's a processional cross (not a crucifix). There's a big stained glass cross (with a bible, a shell, a dove, etc.) but no corpus. There are lots of furnishings and lovely banners, but I ask myself, each week, "Where's Jesus"?

Now, before you fundies get excited, I realize he's in my heart! But so are my mom and dad (RIP). But I like to look at a photo of them once in awhile, "in rememberance." It helps me remember how much I love them.

When I look upon the cross, yes, with Christ on it (yes, yes, he's risen. I know that,) but when I gaze upon his nail scared hands and his riven side and that awful crown of thorns, everything is placed into perspective. Everything. Sunday after Sunday. My whole life revolves around that rememberance, and the rememberance is enhanced by gazing upon that awful scene . . . and reflecting, with my whole being. The experience is just not the same without the crucifix. (I am saving up to buy my church an altar cross!!!)

[TPartyType]

Does that make sense?

Not to me.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience with all of us! Thank God for you! Hugs!

[crazykatz]

Jealous aren't you ? Too bad bub!

[Destro]

Abortion is an anathema to the Orthodox as it is to Catholics and most Protestant groups.

ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS AND ABORTION

In addition Greeks have been against abortion even during pagan times as enshrined in Hippocrates' Hippocratic Oath

The father of medicine as envisioned by a Byzantine artist.

[Destro]

bump

[Pyro7480]

I have this bit of information for you concerning the Orthodox Churches in the U.S. and the pro-life cause. Recently, with the 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the Family Research Council, along with other influential groups and individuals active in the pro-life cause, compiled a statement that is titled "Building a Culture of Life." It is printed in their document Building a Culture of Life: 30 Years After Roe v. Wade. Among the signatories to this document (along with promenient Catholics and Protestants) are the following Orthodox clergy:

His Eminence Metropolitan Christopher - President, Episcopal Council of the Serbian Orthodox Church in the USA and Canada

Father Stanley S. Harakas - Archbishop Iakovos Professor of Orthodox Theology, Emeritus, Holy Cross Greek Orthodox Church School of Theology

The Most Blessed Herman - Archbishop of Washington, Metropolitan of All America and Canada, Primate, Orthodox Church in America

Metropolitan Iakovos of Krinis - Diocese of Chicago, Greek Orthodox Church of America

Metropolitan Maximos of Aenos - Bishop of Pittsburgh, Greek Orthodox Church of America

Subdeacon John Protopapas of Orthodox Christians for Life

Father Patrick Henry Reardon - Archpriest of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America, Pastor of All Saints Church, Chicago, Illinois

Father Alexander F.C. Webster - St. Mary Orthodox Church, Falls Church, Virginia

I know Metropolitan Herman was down at the March for Life this year because I saw him being interviewed on EWTN. He actually gave a blessing for the mostly-Catholic audience. Even though the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches have been historically at odds, they have worked together in this noble cause over the past 30 years. It's a good sign for the future of the relations between Christian churches.