Author Frank Schaeffer to speak on his Orthodox faith

modbee.com ^ | February 22, 2003 @ 05:45:12 AM PST | AMY WHITE

[Destro]

Frank Schaeffer, son of the late renowned Christian theologian Francis Schaeffer, will be in Modesto next weekend to discuss the Orthodox church and faith. Schaeffer holds a photo of his son, John, a Marine.

Author Frank Schaeffer will speak at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Modesto next Saturday on the historic Orthodox tradition and his conversion to the Orthodox faith.

[Pining_4_TX]

Thirdly, he shows that we do not worship icons, for worship belongs to God alone, but we venerate or show honor to them, for the image is one thing, and the thing depicted is another,"

You are playing with words here. One should never venerate or honor an object. All honor, veneration, glory, and worship belong to God alone. Icons are a violation of the second commandment.

[cookcounty]

Wow, you type fast!!

Interesting, but you haven't really addressed my question. "According to tradition..." certainly has a pleasant ring to it, but am I to believe that these 1st century Jews were painting Icons and kissing them in worship and IT BROUGHT NO CONTROVERSY OR COMMENT? One would have thought it would have been front and center in the book of Acts, the Jerusalem Council and the Epistles

[Destro]

..and they did away with the need for circumcision and keeping kosher too.

[txzman]

Writing books does not make a trend. One can write a book about anything that any idiot will pay money for - just look at any Barnes and Noble.

The difference is one of commitment to Faith. It is there that you rarely (being aware of the real numbers we are talking about) find people jumping from say Protestantism to Orthodox Christianity - not that there aren't good cases for people to do so in seeking God.

However making this kind of thing a "trend" I think trivalises Christinaity in general. As Sara Groves sings "...people trying on truth as if it were a new suit, will it fit around the shoulders, will it fade when I get older?"

The God of the Christian Bible is much greater, far more awesome and supremely "other" than the little boxes man strives so hard to fit Him into.

[Destro]

Icons in our churches and homes are, in the words of St. John "opened books to remind us of God." (indeed ,an icon is a painted image of Christ just as Scripture is a written image of the Saviour.)

When the Second Coming happens and Jesus descends from the heavens and I snap his picture and venerate it did I just sin?

I wonder why God asked images of Angels to be made? and for the Arc to be venerated then? "under the Old Covenant God commanded images to be made: first the tabernacle, and then everything in it"--which included images of angels surmounting the Ark. These images were not idols because they were not worshipped.

[Destro]

Me thinks thou dost protest too much. The issues you have are your own. The book I linked you to seems to address your question. There are others books on the subject I assume so you would do well to read them to see their validity. I am not an authority on the matter.

[cookcounty]

"..and they did away with the need for circumcision and keeping kosher too."

But this supports my point. These were major controversies in the New Testament, dealt with and argued at length. Why no controversy about images in worship?

[cookcounty]

Let me suggest that one could take the approach that "images in worship" was at times more and at other times less important to Jews. After the christians began worshipping Jesus (or icons?), they recoiled and in reaction and became more "anti-image", than they in fact had been at christianity's first appearance.

...I'm not convinced of it, though.

[Destro]

You are wrong since the Jews have always venerated certain types of religous images - veneration is not worship.

[Destro]

You can suggest it but I did not. The bible is full of refrences to images of veneration. The temple was full of them. You just could not make an image of God since God had no image until Jesus was made flesh. You can depict what is depictable in Jewish law.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for thinking of me!

I’ve never been associated with either the charismatic or the liturgical. My roots are Southern Baptist, my walk with the Lord is about 43 years long and counting, my faith in the Father is built on a personal relationship with Jesus. I abide in Him and He abides in me. My guidance is by the Holy Spirit and the Word.

I rarely read commentaries, non-Scriptural books or listen to sermons. It’s not that I don’t respect the opinions of others, it’s that I respect them all equally. Your opinion means as much to me as the Pope’s. Perhaps it is a Baptist thing, but the little blue haired lady five rows back with her worn out Bible may have a deeper spiritual knowledge than Billy Graham. I’m sure he would agree.

To me, church affiliation is a secondary thing which I have not changed in all these years. I believe that God is not a respecter of denominations, if He were the twelve disciples wouldn’t have been so different.

For all these reasons, I’m confident that I’m not the kind of person you would want for this dialogue.

[cookcounty]

' The bible is full of refrences to images of veneration. The temple was full of them. You just could not make an image of God since God had no image until Jesus was made flesh. You can depict what is depictable in Jewish law."

Images of what? Humans? I don't think you can cite me a single example, (unless it's Nebuchadnezzar, the proto-Saddam!!).

[cookcounty]

I feel like i'm getting a bit huffy, I better calm down...Headin for the sack, Destro, Good nite, may God bless you much.

[Destro]

I did write - You just could not make an image of God since God had no image until Jesus was made flesh. You can depict what is depictable in Jewish law.

The Orthodox Church claims decent from the Apolstolic tradition that arose after the crucifiction up until it became the official religion of the Roman Empire. In between there was alternate movements like Arianisim that died out and some even inspired Islam.

[txzman]

Point well taken :)

My belief is a very serious matter and at times I stretch when replying to matters of Faith. I will try to lighten up in the future :)

[TPartyType]

Well, you certainly said a mouthful, sister! I guess you're right. Go in peace; serve the Lord.

[BlackElk]

Gee and I had thought that it was the Roman Catholic Church which put a stop to lay investiture of bishops (political leaders or bosses choosing bishops) and the Orthodox Church which, rejecting the papacy, had to fall back on the Soviet Politburo and KGB to name the leaders of the Orthodox Church in Russia and its satellites.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your understanding! May God bless you in all that you do. Hugs!

[Marysecretary]

Since God inhabits the praises of His people, we praise Him and He visits our services. Our worship and praise has been tremendous lately. God moves in our midst during those special times. I wouldn't go back to a liturgical church for love nor money unless God appeared to me in person and said I had to. Give me the freedom of a balanced, spirit filled charismatic church any time. That's my stand. I know others feel differently and that's good, too. Different strokes for different folks.

[Mamzelle]

Actually, I thought Francis himself converted before he died.