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EDITORIAL: Our new European friends
Jerusalem Post ^ | Feb. 20, 2003

Posted on 02/21/2003 4:42:14 PM PST by yonif

The emergence of a "new Europe" resolute against terrorism and opposed to the appeasement instincts of the "old Europe" was reinforced by what didn't happen last weekend in the former Soviet bloc. While millions of Western Europeans demonstrated against uprooting the genocidal regime of Saddam Hussein, the streets of Eastern Europe's capitals were resoundingly silent. The message of that silence was that Eastern Europe, unlike much of Western Europe, understands the difference between those who would destroy civilization and those who would defend it.

The new continental divide has reversed the Cold War-era notions of "good" Europe and "bad" Europe. In the post-Soviet era, when the threat of messianic totalitarianism emanates not from communism but from Islamist fascism, the former Soviet satellites have emerged as the counterweight to that part of Europe caught by fear and delusion. The split within Europe is largely a question of historical perception. While countries like France and Germany view the American attack on Saddam through the prism of the war in Vietnam, the frame of reference for countries like Poland and the Czech Republic is the Munich betrayal of 1938.

The emergence of a pro-American European bloc calls for new thinking among Israelis and Diaspora Jews, who still largely relate to Eastern and Central Europe with suspicion and resentment, resulting from centuries of anti-Jewish persecution culminating in the Holocaust. The Israeli and world Jewish agenda in dealing with the former Soviet bloc has focused almost exclusively on Holocaust-related issues, like restoring Jewish-owned property plundered during the war. So too, the reemergence of classical right-wing anti-Semitism, such as sporadic attacks on Jewish cemeteries, have reminded us that old prejudices linger, even in the graveyard of European Jewry.

Still, while vigilance against the resurgence of right-wing anti-Semitism must be maintained, the real threat to Jewish existence today comes from the systematic demonization of the Jewish state. Allowing the Holocaust to dominate our agenda with Eastern and Central Europe means fighting the last war, ignoring potential allies in our current struggle against the anti-Zionist attempt to delegitimize Jewish sovereignty and collective existence.

Increasingly, as last week's decision by Belgium to pursue Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for "war crimes" reveals, that assault is emanating from Western, not Eastern Europe. Indeed, Eastern Europeans tend to empathize with Israel as a small country suffering from a difficult geography, and to admire its achievements in creating a modern society. In Western Europe, Sharon is widely demonized as the Middle Eastern version of Slobodan Milosevic. In Eastern Europe, the Middle East's real villain is more likely to be perceived as that old Soviet ally, Yasser Arafat.

In recent years, Eastern European leaders have traveled to Israel and expressed remorse for the past. It is time for a reciprocal outreach. Israel needs to take the initiative and encourage rapprochement between Eastern Europe and the Jewish people.

One good way to begin is by creating a dialogue between Israeli and Eastern European youth, and one good place to start is Poland. The itineraries of Israeli student groups that go on pilgrimage to the Polish death camps should include meetings with young Poles. In the 1960s, barely two decades after the end of the Holocaust, youth exchanges were begun between Israel and West Germany.

Israel's readiness to come to terms with what was then called the "new Germany" may well be unprecedented in the annals of relations between victims and their former persecutors. If Israelis could normalize their relations with Germans, surely the time has come for us to reach out to the peoples of the former Soviet bloc.

Rather than divide us, World War II now offers Jews and Eastern Europeans a common language. Together, we have learned a key lesson of the 20th century, largely forgotten in Western Europe: Appeasement doesn't work. As international alignments shift and a new pro-American and anti-terrorism coalition emerges, Israel needs to strengthen its ties with all the members of that coalition. However difficult, it is time to start relating to countries like Poland and Hungary, whose histories contain our most bitter memories, as allies and friends.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; Government; Israel; News/Current Events; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: europe; iraq; israel; usa; warlist; waronterrorism
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1 posted on 02/21/2003 4:42:15 PM PST by yonif
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To: yonif
Bump to the top

New Europe!
2 posted on 02/21/2003 4:47:35 PM PST by CyberCowboy777 (In those days... Every man did that which was right in his own eyes.)
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To: All
The NEW LIBERTY ALLIANCE, which includes the NEW EUROPE...

WHO has joined the ALLIES FOR LIBERTY & FREEDOM?

THESE ARE the 29 ALLIES for IRAQI people’s (women & children included) FREEDOM

U.S., Britian, Australia, Spain, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Italy, Portugal, Armenia, Lithuania

Slovakia, Denmark, Czech Republic, Quatar, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Albania, Kuwait, Israel, Slovenia, Estonia, Latvia, Macedonia, Croatia, Azerbaijan, Georgia Republic, Marshall Islands and Japan

FREE the IRAQI people!!!

What OTHER countries want the IRAQI citizens FREEDOM?
ARMENIA
AZERBAIJAN GEORGIA Republic
MARSHALL ISLANDS
goodnesswins, with technical assistance from abner

3 posted on 02/21/2003 5:07:24 PM PST by goodnesswins (Thank the Military for your freedom and security....and thank a Rich person for jobs.)
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To: yonif
Good article. I was going to write a long response on the history of Polish-Jewish relations, but I decided to toss it out. These relations were by no means always happy, but leftist historians have badly misrepresented them, partly in hopes of getting Jews and Catholics fighting with each other.

The Death Camps were not placed in Poland at the choice of the Poles. Any argument over who suffered most would be foolish; but the Poles were victimized by the Nazis on an enormous scale.

I have no fish to fry here. I have no Polish ancestry. But I was very pleased to see the advice that Jews ought to start reconsidering who their friends and their enemies are.
4 posted on 02/21/2003 5:10:11 PM PST by Cicero
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To: yonif; Balkans; dennisw
Except Slovenia and Macedonia all other Vilnus 10 countries were allies of NAZI GERMANY, persecuted and exterminated Jews and provided Waffen SS divisions for Hitler and guards for Concentration camps.

VIlnus 10 looks like a Waffen SS volonteers meeting.

Richard Mucins, counselor at the Latvian embassy in Washington, said,according to the paper, that Jackson suggested the following passage, one of the most compelling sections in the statement:

"Our countries understand the dangers posed by tyranny and the special responsibility of democracies to defend our shared values".

The only shared value those countries have is common Nazi past.

This sentence from Vilnus 10 statement is enough to make decent person puke.

NEVER AGAIN. Yeah, right.

5 posted on 02/21/2003 5:12:29 PM PST by DTA
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To: DTA
Do you also believe the government of the USA should pay slave reparations?

As a child, I visited a craft village that also included a holocaust museum/memorial.I have never forgotten the posters of pits and mounds of dead human bodies.The sight is not one I would willingly let my child view, untill she is at least old enough to have some mental defense mechanisms against that level of horror.Even though the holocaust happened 18 years before my birth,I have carried the memory of its horror, and have always supported the rightness of the nation of Israel to exist,based upon simple human justice.I stand by Israel today.

NEVER AGAIN indeed.

But "it" did happen again, did it not?In Rwanda, against the Tutsis, in 1994.Where was Israel then? I dont remember hearing of heroic Israeli efforts to stop the genocide.The USA was also conspiciously absent.The UN?The UN also turned a blind eye.

If you wish to punish the current people of Europe for the sins of their fathers, feel free.Do not expect the second and third generations of Europe, who are innocent of inflicting that horror, to view you as rational, or accept the unearned accusation of murderous genocidal intent.

I have never understood why the hatred of the Jewish people flourished, and still exists in this world.

I am now very aware of how it is possible to hate a group of people for their religion.Islamic terrorists have taught me how "it" can very easily happen again.Will the genocide of Islamic people count as a holocaust, or do you think it a justifiable self defense?

What did the Tutsis do to deserve their fate?

I am a citizen of the USA.My ancestors included a race that endured the horror of genocide.Who should suffer for those crimes?Those who actually did it are long dead.Shall I hate half of my personal genetic makeup for the sake of self righteous superiority as a partial member of a recognised victim class in history?

If NEVER AGAIN really means "never again", when will "never again" start?

6 posted on 02/21/2003 6:48:05 PM PST by sarasmom (trying to remain calm..)
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To: sarasmom
Will the genocide of Islamic people count as a holocaust, or do you think it a justifiable self defense?

No one is advocating genocide against the islamic people, however psychopathic madmen who incite murder will be eliminated for the good of all mankind. And as a Christian I don't hate our enemies, but they will be destroyed . The people who would harm us through terrorism have been warned. We don't ask them to renounce Allah, Live as we do, or even like us. They just have to stop murdering innocent civilians.
7 posted on 02/21/2003 7:48:20 PM PST by ffusco ("Omnis Gallia delenda est!")
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To: sarasmom
I have lived in Germany the past two years and the problem is, a lot of those second- and third-generation Europeans are as equally anti-Semitic as their fathers. The Leftist Germans just play a more subtle game and mask it as "anti-Israel." And furthermore, they turn a blind eye to the worldwide persecution of Christians by Muslims because it is not hip to be a Christian in contemporary Germany. (It IS hip, though, to wear Che T-shirts or Muslim black-and-white checked scarves with fringe at the edges to express solidarity with the terrorists.) That's why Muslim extremists flourish so easily in Germany right now. I've had many Leftist Germans tell me that Arab Muslims are more welcome here than any American with German heritage. I've also had Arab Muslims be abusive to me -- both physically and verbally -- on public transport systems, and NOT ONE German came to my defense. Instead, they just acted as if they did not see or hear anything.

Just some food for your line of thought...
8 posted on 02/21/2003 8:32:48 PM PST by MissouriForBush
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To: MissouriForBush
I defer to your more recent experience in Europe, and I do not challenge your opinion.

I honestly do not know why the continuous hatred of Judaic people is prominent in Europe, or if it really is "prominent".

I was active duty USAF on German soil in the early 1980s.Terrorists were a seemingly acceptable nuisance to the German public back then.Since the bad guys mostly targeted USA GIs, the vocal element of the country seemed to tolerate them just fine.

Absolutely none of my village neighbors thought the Baader-Meinhoff gang types represented them, in any way, shape, or form.The local Germanic people I knew would no more support terrorists than anyone in my current neighborhood would tolerate a neo-nazi group in our midst.

I am not yet ready to carpet bomb Europe, just because they have foolishly elected Clintonian type leaders.Glass house terms apply.

The USA can, if need be, entirely prove our point by vacating the country entirely.I advocate that position, as a matter of fact.

9 posted on 02/21/2003 10:04:32 PM PST by sarasmom (trying to remain calm..)
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To: sarasmom
I dont remember hearing of heroic Israeli efforts to stop the genocide

In 1994, the left-wing party running the government of Israel had just signed the Oslo accords, and was under a terrorist assault (the first big wave of suicide bombers). It was receiving assistance from the US to purchase military weapons. It was in no position to go off on a grand adventure overseas while hostile armies gathered on its borders.

10 posted on 02/21/2003 10:08:11 PM PST by xm177e2 (smile) :-)
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To: sarasmom
Absolutely none of my village neighbors thought the Baader-Meinhoff gang types represented them, in any way, shape, or form.The local Germanic people I knew would no more support terrorists than anyone in my current neighborhood would tolerate a neo-nazi group in our midst.

And yet Joschka Fischer is the most popular politician in Germany right now. He has a long history of assaulting police officers, possibly throwing a firebomb at a police officer, and giving shelter to terrorists in his house/apartment. He was at the PLO conference where they called for the complete destruction of Israel. If the Germans are such nice people, why do they love this guy so much?

11 posted on 02/21/2003 10:10:11 PM PST by xm177e2 (smile) :-)
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To: yonif
What can we buy from Eastern Europe instead of Western?? I want Eastern European goods. I'll eat a polish sausage from Costco tommorow, and well what the hell else is there...help me out.
12 posted on 02/21/2003 10:12:24 PM PST by Porterville
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To: ffusco
Perhaps I was too diplomatic.

I am ready to waste all Islamics, everywhere,yesterday.

I am not a Christian, and I dont turn my cheek for another slap.

I am trying to understand how we, the USA, got roped into this insanity.

Someone give me a reason to hate a Jew.

I have well over 3000 unforgetable, undeniable, logical reasons to hate Islamics.Not a subject open to debate.This position is baseline, and no additional explanation is required for sentient humanity.

What I question is the hatred of the Jews.

13 posted on 02/21/2003 10:32:09 PM PST by sarasmom (trying to remain calm..)
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To: xm177e2
Sorry Charlie, no cigar.Clinton was using it in his own special way, but no supposedly civilised country gets a "buy" on this one.

I do not accuse, nor do I absolve, Israel of the burden of blood guilt for the genocide of the Tutsis in Rwanda.

The entire world watched genocide occur,once again, after the world swore "never again".

Get the US out of the UN, and the UN out of the US.

14 posted on 02/21/2003 10:51:42 PM PST by sarasmom (trying to remain calm..)
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To: yonif; *war_list; 11th_VA; Libertarianize the GOP; Free the USA; MadIvan; PhiKapMom; ...
OFFICIAL BUMP(TOPIC)LIST
15 posted on 02/21/2003 10:51:47 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Nuke Saddam and his Baby Milk Factories!!)
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To: sarasmom
The entire world watched genocide occur,once again, after the world swore "never again".

It also watched it happen in Cambodia, in fact it was encouraged by the anti-Vietnam war protesters. The biggest anti-War marches occurred after our "invasion" of Cambodia, so there was no way the US was going to do anything to stop it.

16 posted on 02/21/2003 10:56:39 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
No one gets a buy.

That is/was my point.

My second point, is that the unborn, and/or children at the time,are not required to pay for the sins of their fathers.

By any definitian of any just, omnipotant God, the unborn innocent must not be required to pay for the sins of their fathers.

17 posted on 02/21/2003 11:08:14 PM PST by sarasmom (trying to remain calm..)
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To: sarasmom
NEVER AGAIN. Yeah, right.

If you wish to punish the current people of Europe for the sins of their fathers, feel free.Do not expect the second and third generations of Europe, who are innocent of inflicting that horror, to view you as rational, or accept the unearned accusation of murderous genocidal intent.

Sarasmom has it right.

The concept of NEVER AGAIN requires a historical framework, but a broad brush not only tarnishes the memory of the Righteous Among the Nations but it prevents us from distinguishing our friends from our enemies. Europe today, as in the 30s is a very mixed bag.

18 posted on 02/22/2003 10:50:24 AM PST by SJackson
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To: dfwgator
It also watched it happen in Cambodia, in fact it was encouraged by the anti-Vietnam war protesters.

They're encouraging it to this day.

VIETNAM CRACKING DOWN ON CHRISTIAN TRIBES IN MOUNTAINS

PERSECUTION OF MONTAGNARD CHRISTIANS IN VIETNAM

Christmas crackdown in Vietnam (Communists persecute Christians, again)

19 posted on 02/22/2003 10:53:45 AM PST by SJackson
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To: DTA
How does being forcibly occupied make you an "ally?" And could you please forward me a list of the countries that you consider not to be Nazi? I'm concerned about Belize.
20 posted on 02/22/2003 10:58:24 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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