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Please explain the difference between .38 and .380 (vanity)
2/16/03 | self

Posted on 02/16/2003 7:49:45 PM PST by rudy45

I had always believed that the caliber of a gun was the inside diameter of the barrel. Assuming I am correct (am I?) then shouldn't .38 and .380 be "close"? If I remember from high school math, the latter simply implies a greater degree of precision. IOW, a .38 caliber really could be anything from .376 to .384, while .380 caliber has smaller variance--.3796 to .3804?

However, the attendant at a local range said that .38 refers to revolvers while .380 refers to pistols (?)

Thanks.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 380acp; banglist; guns
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To: Oschisms
So a .380 will take 9mm ammo? Sorry for my ignorance.

No. Semi-auto, rimless cartridges depend on having the case mouth (where the bullet is crimped into the brass) settle on a rim at the end of the firing chamber. This places the case head (where the primer is placed) in exactly the correct spacing for the firing pin to strike. A .380 ACP (9mm kurz) will slide down into the chamber and stop at the rim. The firing pin can't possible reach the primer. The 9mm, if placed in a .380 ACP chamber will protrude a great distance. The slide will not close and (hopefully) a safety mechanism will block the hammer from striking the firing pin.

This same technique of setting the headspace using the case mouth is also employed in the .45 ACP.

You should never put any ammo into a firearm unless is is specifically designed to handle that ammo. It is dangerous to do so. At the minimum, you may be disappointed when it doesn't fire. The worst case is obvious.

Bullet weights for the .380 ACP range from 85 gr to 110 gr. The .380 ACP uses a .354 caliber bullet. Same as the 9mm. The .38SPL uses a .357 caliber bullet in weight ranges from 125 gr to 180 gr.

41 posted on 02/16/2003 9:16:13 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Indrid Cold
LOL My brother likes his 454 Casull. powerful :)
42 posted on 02/16/2003 9:18:00 PM PST by Libertina
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To: Myrddin
The firing pin can't possible reach the primer.

That turns out to not be the case, in my experience.

/john

43 posted on 02/16/2003 9:20:13 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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To: RecentConvert
""shouldn't .38 and .380 be "close"?""

No, they are not REALLY named for their actual bullet diammeter- they got these names for historical reasons, not mathematical ones, and you cannot treat the last digit as a "significant digit" at all. For example, as pointed out above, the .38 Special and the .357 bullet are the same diameter - the difference is in the length of the cartridge case, primarily.

44 posted on 02/16/2003 9:20:51 PM PST by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: JRandomFreeper
The reason it turned out to not be the case in your situations is that the extractor was holding the .380 in the proper place and allowed the firing pin/striker to hit the primer properly. It can happen either way, but usually the extractor will hold the cartridge in place as yours did.

Glad you were not hurt.

45 posted on 02/16/2003 9:26:28 PM PST by Double Tap
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To: Double Tap
but usually the extractor will hold the cartridge in place as yours did.

It was the first round in the magazine. And I was much more tentative about racking the slide back then. If it had fed from the middle of the magazine, there would be a different story told. And probably typed by someone with fingers.

Always check ammo. Always.

I did luck out. I am glad also.

/john

46 posted on 02/16/2003 9:32:26 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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To: JRandomFreeper
As an example of how the extractor can hold a cartridge well enough to fire:

I have several 9mmP cases that look like little mushrooms. They were fired in a pistol chambered for 40 S&W. I was watching a fella at the local range show his wife how to shoot. His S&W pistol was acting like a single shot. He would have to cycle the slide after every shot and the bullets were hitting the target sideways. I asked him what the problem was, and he said that his gun was broken as it would not cycle properly. He asked if I could take a look at it. The pistol was clearly marked as 40 S&W, but the box of ammo he was using was clearly marked 9mm. I showed him the fired cases and what he was doing wrong.

He walked off grumbling something about letting the wife pack the ammo in his bag!!!

47 posted on 02/16/2003 9:33:12 PM PST by Double Tap
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To: Myrddin
It always amazes me when careful reloaders will use questionable powders in order to save a couple of dollars.

Also, putting nasty, corroded cartridges into guns worth hundreds of dollars.

The same thing about accidently dropping a cartrdge on the ground and failing to clean it before loading it.

More importantly, if someone offers reloaded ammunition, use it in their gun. Make sure you have your eye protection on.
48 posted on 02/16/2003 9:35:09 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: rudy45
Calibers are misleading as to bore diameter. 38 calibers are a varied lot, a 38 Smith and Wesson is a .360 bullet diameter and was for weaker top break revolvers. A 38 Special is a .357 bullet diameter, the same as a 357 magnum.

The 380 ACP, (automatic cartridge pistol) is .355 bullet diameter and known in various European countries as the 9mm Short, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Breve, or 9mm Corto to differentiate it from the longer and more powerful 9mm Parabellum, also called the 9mm Luger.

As an aside, the 9mm Parbellum came out in 1902 and today is 101 years old. The venerable .45 ACP invented by John Browning was chambered for the Colt 1911 in that same year and is now 92 years old, it remains the preference of millions today and is still going strong. I think my old (Remington Rand )19111A1 made in 1943, and my constant companion for many years is the greatest combat hand gun ever made. It's form and function is timeless, once mastered, the .45 ACP 1911 is a true friend indeed
49 posted on 02/16/2003 9:37:17 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: RANGERAIRBORNE
Thanks. I learned something new today.
50 posted on 02/16/2003 9:39:17 PM PST by RecentConvert (Pacificists (eg, france) are the parasites of freedom)
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To: sailorforfreedom
Several years ago, the Texas Rangers switched from their 357 Magnum revolvers to the 45 cal. autopistol.

They must have switched back as I've seen pictures of Rangers, plus local cops and sherrifs, from the late 1910's and the 1920s with 1911 type pistols. I've seen some of the pistols themselves in the Ranger Museum in Waco. If you like guns, and cops and robbers too, try to stop in there sometime. It's on I-35 the first exit south of the Brazos river, (exit 335-B) on the east side of the highway. It's also a working Ranger station, so be on your best behavior, "..cause that's were the Ranger's gonna be" :)


51 posted on 02/16/2003 9:56:14 PM PST by El Gato
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To: El Gato
They must have switched back

Meant to say "back again", assuming they had switched to .357 from .45 ACP in the first place. Actually I believe the Rangers have considerable leeway in their choice of carry weapons, with not all Rangers carrying the same caliber or even type.

52 posted on 02/16/2003 10:01:01 PM PST by El Gato
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To: rudy45
The best way to compare two cartridges is to compare their energies at the muzzle.

The .380 has a muzzle energy of 180 foot-pounds, while the .38 Special has a muzzle energy of 251 foot-pounds.

The .38 has almost 50% more energy.

Handgun Ballistics

PROPERTIES

ENERGY

VELOCITY (feet/second)

BULLET PATH

Caliber

Item No.

Bullet Type

Weight

FT. LBS.

MUZZLE

25 Yds.

50 Yds.

75 Yds.

100 Yds.

25 Yds.

50 Yds.

75 Yds.

100 Yds.

25 Auto

25A

FMJ

50

62

750

722

695

670

645

1.83

0

-6.33

-17.50

32 Auto

32A

FMJ

71

126

900

869

838

809

781

1.19

0

-4.28

-11.89

32 Auto

32B

JHP

60

117

980

849

820

791

763

1.26

0

-4.49

-12.46

32 S&W Long

32SWLA

LRN

98

132

780

758

737

717

697

1.64

0

-5.64

-15.50

32 S&W Long

32SWLB

LWC

100

103

680

655

630

607

584

2.28

0

-7.75

-21.40

380 Auto

380SFA

SFHP

95

180

925

884

847

813

783

1.14

0

-4.12

-11.49

380 Auto

380A

FMJ

90

169

920

886

853

822

791

1.13

0

-4.12

-11.46

380 Auto

380B

JHP

90

169

920

886

853

822

791

1.13

0

-4.12

-11.46

38 Special+P

38SFA

SFHP

125

251

950

918

889

863

838

1.06

0

-3.77

-10.45

38 Special

38A

LRN

158

235

820

801

783

765

749

1.43

0

-5

-13.74

38 Special

38C

LWC

148

175

730

703

677

652

628

1.95

0

-6.69

-18.50

38 Special +P

38D

JHP

125

250

950

920

892

864

837

1.03

0

-3.77

-10.44

38 Special

38G

FMJ

132

207

840

817

795

773

752

1.38

0

-4.82

-13.27

38 Special

38N

JSP

158

225

800

780

760

741

722

1.54

0

-5.29

-14.55

38 Super Auto+P

38SA

FMJ

130

343

1090

1041

1000

965

934

0.75

0

-2.92

-8.16

38 Super Auto+P

38SB

JHP

115

320

1120

1061

1013

972

937

0.71

0

-2.83

-7.95

9mm Luger

9SFL

SFHP

95

330

1250

1239

1228

1217

1207

.46

0

-1.90

-5.26

9mm Luger

9SFB

SFHP

124

327

1090

1043

1003

969

939

0.75

0

-2.89

-8.03

9mm Luger

9A

FMJ

115

338

1150

1099

1057

1020

988

0.65

0

-2.59

-7.26

9mm Luger

9B

JHP

115

344

1160

1099

1049

1007

971

0.65

0

-2.62

-7.37

9mm Luger

9G

FMJ

124

339

1110

1059

1017

980

949

0.71

0

-2.83

-7.86

357 Magnum

357SFA

SFHP

150

480

1200

1131

1076

1031

992

0.60

0

-2.47

-6.97

357 Magnum

357A

JSP

158

505

1200

1132

1078

1033

994

0.60

0

-2.46

-6.95

357 Magnum

357B

JHP

125

584

1450

1337

1235

1155

1093

0.36

0

-1.78

-5.19

357 Magnum

357C

JHP

150

504

1230

1158

1100

1053

1012

0.56

0

-2.35

-6.65

357 Sig

357Sig-SFB

SFHP

124

502

1350

1263

1190

1132

1083

0.43

0

-1.96

-5.62

357 Sig

357Sig-A

FMJ/FP

124

512

1350

1242

1158

1093

1040

0.45

0

-2.07

-5.95

40 S&W

40SFA

SFHP

180

388

985

958

933

910

889

0.93

0

-3.45

-9.58

40 S&W

40SFB

SFHP

155

463

1160

1092

1039

994

957

0.65

0

-2.66

-7.47

40 S&W

40B

JHP

156

396

1040

1002

970

941

915

0.83

0

-3.14

-8.75

40 S&W

40D

FMJ

165

355

985

955

928

903

879

0.94

0

-3.46

-9.59

40 S&W

40E

FMJ/FP

180

388

985

957

931

908

885

0.94

0

-3.44

-9.52

10mm Auto

10SFA

SFHP

180

361

950

926

903

882

862

1.04

0

-3.7

-10.16

10mm Auto

10A

TC-FMJ

200

490

1050

1008

972

941

912

0.82

0

-3.08

-8.63

10 mm Auto

10B

JHP

170

543

1200

1117

1052

1000

958

0.62

0

-2.55

-7.21

41 Rem Mag

41C

TCSP

210

788

1300

1210

1141

1065

1038

0.49

0

-2.16

-6.15

44 S&W Special

44SA

SWC-CP

240

308

760

737

714

692

671

1.75

0

-6.01

-16.56

44 S&W Special

44SB

JHP

180

383

980

938

902

869

839

1

0

-3.67

-10.14

44 Rem. Mag

44SFA

SFHP

240

900

1300

1212

1138

1079

1030

0.49

0

-2.13

-6.08

44 Rem. Mag

44A

LSWC-GCK

240

833

1250

1168

1103

1051

1008

0.55

0

-2.32

-6.60

44 Rem. Mag

44B

JHP

180

783

1400

1270

1167

1091

1032

0.42

0

-2.01

-5.84

44 Rem. Mag

44C

JHP

240

901

1300

1217

1151

1098

1053

0.48

0

-2.12

-6.03

44 Rem. Mag

44D

TC-SP

240

900

1300

1216

1144

1086

1038

0.49

0

-2.11

-6

45 Auto

45SFA

SFHP

230

369

850

830

811

792

775

1.32

0

-4.63

-12.67

45 Auto

45A

FMJ

230

352

830

809

789

769

749

1.41

0

-4.90

-13.48

45 Auto

45B

JHP

185

333

900

867

836

805

776

1.19

0

-4.30

-11.96

45 Auto

45C

FMJ-SWC

200

321

850

818

788

761

734

1.36

0

-4.84

-13.48

45 Colt

45LB

FMJ-FP

250

355

800

783

766

750

733

1.52

0

-5.22

-14.31

*45 Colt+P+

45HA

JSP

300

1041

1250

1192

1144

1102

1066

.51

0

-2.17

-6.13

*WARNING: This ammunition is loaded to higher pressures and is, therefor, not intended for use in firearms of weaker receiver/frame strength such as the Colt Single Action Army revolver. Please consult the firearms manufacturer for compatibility and use.

Abbreviations:

CC - Copper Coated
LRN - Lead Round Nose
JSP - Jacketed Soft Point
LFP - Lead Flat Point
JHP - Jacketed Hollow Point
LSWC - Lead Semi-Wadcutter
SFHP - Starfire Hollow Point
GCK - Gas Check
FMJ - Full Metal Jacket
LWC - Lead Wadcutter
TC - Truncated Cone

This Ballistics Table was calculated by using current data for each load. Velocity figures are from test barrels; user velocities may vary from those listed. The data in the table represents the approximate behavior of each loading under the following conditions: 59ºF, barometric pressure of 29.52 inches, sea level altitude.


53 posted on 02/16/2003 10:11:41 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: Shooter 2.5
My brass is cleaned and polished to the quality of fine jewelry before each reloading session. The RCBS 505 scale is perfectly balanced and the load books are out to make sure I'm using the right powder type and weight. Only one powder on the bench at a time. The Dillon 550 is carefully calibrated at each station and the powder drop weighed to the nearest 0.1 gr. The finished product goes into a cartridge guage to ensure legal SAAMI dimensions. OAL is verified with calipers. Crimps checked with a micrometer. Checks for case head bulges from over pressure as well.

I've taught my wife the same principles and trust the quality of ammo she loads as well. Our firearms vary in value from $400 to $1000 each. We NEVER allow anything but first quality ammo in them. We also don't offer our reloaded ammo to others. We don't carry the necessary insurance nor federal ammunition manufacturing licenses that would make such an action legal or advisable.

Eye and ear protection is a must. Always. I've had a 44 mag splashback from a 25 yard range and clip the top of my ear. The immediate stinging in my left ear was complemented with blood all over my fingers. A few inches the other direction would surely have caused eye damage...except I always wear shooting glasses. I was wearing 32 dB foam ear plugs, thus my bare ears were exposed to the splashback. I add muffs to the foam ear plugs when shooting the .454 Casull. Bone jarring and fun.

54 posted on 02/16/2003 10:25:14 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: El Gato
The Texas Rangers carried .41 Magnum revolvers for a long time. The current service weapon in favor is the 357SIG. It is a necked down .40 S&W driving a .357 bullet. The ballistics are similar to a .357 Magnum revolver, but the semi-auto capability allows a quick change of magazines.
55 posted on 02/16/2003 10:28:38 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The new S&W 500 Magnum is rated at 2600 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. The hottest .454 Casull from Corbon is rated at 1902 ft-lbs.
56 posted on 02/16/2003 10:32:21 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
Good for you. I noticed that my brass wasn't as clean as I wished and I'm in the process of going back with corn instead of just the walnut. I hope to use the second polishing to get a mirror finish.
57 posted on 02/16/2003 10:32:49 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: absalom01
Bumped and bookmarked.
There is a lot of information on this thread, and I am grateful. Now.... would you be so kind as to explain what "gauge" means as it pertains to shotguns? What is the difference between a 10 gauge, a 12 gauge, and a 22 gauge shotgun? I have always wondered why the lower the gauge, the bigger the barrel.
Thanks.
58 posted on 02/16/2003 10:43:13 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Now.... would you be so kind as to explain what "gauge" means as it pertains to shotguns? What is the difference between a 10 gauge, a 12 gauge, and a 22 gauge shotgun? I have always wondered why the lower the gauge, the bigger the barrel.

Sure. Gauge is the number of lead balls of a diameter which would fit into the barrel, which weigh one pound. Since the density of lead is fixed, the only variable is the diameter of the lead ball.

So, a 12 gauge shotgun has a barrel with a diameter such that a lead ball which would just fit through, would weigh 1/12 of a pound. A 20 gauge's barrel diameter, each ball would weigh 0.05 pounds. And so forth.

59 posted on 02/16/2003 10:57:20 PM PST by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: Lancey Howard
A gauge is how many lead balls of that size per pound would fit into the barrel.

60 posted on 02/16/2003 10:57:44 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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