Bush, Rumsfeld Warn Against Delay on Iraq [McCain: "vacuous posturing"]

Monday is a decisive day in world history.

I am with you on that one. If Germany, France, and Belgium block the request from Turkey for help, NATO is effectively dead. Same fate will then befall the UN!

Are Germany and France ready to go that far? If I were betting, I sure wouldn't bet on them coming around as far out on the limb as they have gone.

"Today Munich says yes to peace and no to war," said Roman Catholic Bishop Engelbert Siebler.

Wasn't that Neville Chamberlin's line in 1939?

So9

There weren't any sounds coming from the Munich conference today which indicate flexibility on the part of the Germans or French.

There is still one more day in which to try.

The future of NATO rides on whether or not Germany, France, and Belgium block Turkey's request for NATO protection.
If those countries block it, NATO is dead as an alliance.

That is their intention. Since the Fall of The Warsaw Pact and the expansion of NATO, France and Germany have looked for a pretext to drive us out of NATO so that they could form a new Alliance with themselves in the center.

The fact that almost all of NATO and the NATO wannabes have sided with us has to be making them very very twitchy. They must have nightmares in which we stay in NATO and they are pushed out along with Greece and Belgium.

Germans (nationals) are the most humorless people I ever ran across.

French (nationals) are aloof and timid.

I see them in the Everglades every spring. They can't tell a turd from a rock.

I don't watch “reality” TV shows... but if you left a group of German and French (nationals) in the heart of the Everglades, I would pay to watch it!

"Monday is a decisive day in world history."

Nice analysis, and makes lots of sense. France and
Germany must have a whole lot to hide with respect to
their dealings with Iraq to go to the mat on this.

Of course this is helped a long
with a good size helping of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism.

"This even threatens the existence of the EU."

And maybe even the existence of DU :)

"Today Munich says yes to peace and no to war,"

Note to Euroweenies. Next time you stage a meeting to appease a dictator, you might consider that the city of Munich might not be the best place to do it, from a PR point of view. That is all.

In a jab at major U.S. allies, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Saturday countries such as France and Germany that...

Newsflash: Those ain't no allies, Mr. Burns.

"We must not accept the logic of a military campaign," Fischer said.

I just love the Freudian-slip wording on that one. It sounds like, "a military campaign is the logical course, but we must not do what's logical".

McCain accused the Germans and French of "calculated self-interest."

According to the Middle East/ Terrorism analyst on FNC, Monsoor...something, the French have $80 billion worth of oil contracts with Saddam so they have essentially been bought...and that there was a bust in France several months ago with an el Qaeda/ ricin link to the recent busts in England...all connected back to Saddam....he said that Chirac is covering up this information...he also said that Schroeder knows that Germany was involved in supplying Saddam with chemical agents that are part of the chemical weapons stockpile and does not want this untidy little fact uncovered...

glad to see McCain coming out...along with Lieberman they have effectively shielded President Bush from the 'war for oil' accusations of the left...BTW Tony Snow essentailly said that France's oil contracts means that the anti-war movement is really about oil LOL!

Monday is a decisive day in world history

A political analyst named Tunku V. (from the Wall Street Journal) said on television about 3 months ago that NATO was really the USA, Great Britain, and Turkey...the only real military powers...he predicted that NATO would eventually welcome some of the smaller Asian Muslim countries like Uzbekistan, etc. out of deference to Turkey's unique role in bridging the gap between the West and the Muslim world...as a secular Muslim country Turkey may emerge from this war on terror a much more influential player than the French and the Germans...we certainly live in interesting times...thank God we have FR to come to and exchange ideas.

I don't think the German government will be shown to have actively conspired to help Saddam create WMD. At most, some private German companies may have evaded German law to supply the banned materials. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if some American companies had skirted the rules, too, although I think we've tried harder to prevent it than France, Germany, or anyone else. This stuff happens, which is why sanctions are a terrible weapon. They don't work.

Germany's anti-war position is more because of domestic political considerations than a true foreign policy decision. The government only governs because it formed a coalition with Greens, for pete's sake. Do you think we'd be moving against Iraq if Ralph Nader held a veto over our policy? Not a chance, but that's the situation in Germany today.

Howdy Tex...got a question. Let me know if I'm wrong...but wasn't last week's news under reported regarding the Popes' statement that a war with Iraq would be immoral. I heard it on several cable news stations, FNC..MSNBC..CNN, but, only on one block..(i.e., hour time frame), then no mentioned follow up..even on FR. Mustang sends.

I wish I had seen that interview.

I think perhaps it is true. Realistically, NATO's existence was to counterbalance the Warsaw Pact, and it has been searching for a reason to continue now that the Iron Curtain has crumbled.

There's no logical reason why NATO automatically makes sense for today's challenges. We live in turbulent times as the world fills power vacuums and war changes from trenches and infantry to terrorism and cyberwar.

We need to look at things differently, and it's entirely possible that NATO doesn't make sense anymore.

but wasn't last week's news under reported regarding the Popes' statement that a war with Iraq would be immoral.

I agree. It has been burried by both left and right for different reasons.

"Next time you stage a meeting to appease a dictator, you might consider that the city of Munich might not be the best place to do it"

I don't doubt they get together at Hofbrauhaus after hours for beer and a sing-song.

(HB was one of Hitlers favorite beer halls)

Got a recent update to this story:

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Bush, Rumsfeld Press for Action on Iraq

1 hour, 3 minutes ago

By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer

MUNICH, Germany - In a jab at major U.S. allies, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Saturday countries such as France and Germany that favor giving Iraq another chance to disarm are undermining what slim chance may exist to avoid war.

AP Photo

(AP Video)

(Reuters Video)

"There are those who counsel that we should delay preparations" for war against Iraq. "Ironically, that approach could well make war more likely, not less, because delaying preparations sends a signal of uncertainty," Rumsfeld said in the opening address at an international conference on security policy.

President Bush (news - web sites) said he will not wait much longer before moving against Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), declaring in his weekly radio address that the Iraqi leader is wasting a last opportunity to come clean.

Rumsfeld said "there is no chance" Saddam will disarm voluntarily or flee his country if given yet another opportunity to comply with the U.N. Security Council resolution from November that demands Iraq's complete disarmament.

Thousands more American forces are converging on the Persian Gulf region in anticipation of a decision by Bush, within days or weeks, to invade Iraq and oust Saddam. Also, Turkey's top civilian and military leaders reportedly agreed Saturday to let the United States send 38,000 troops to the country to open a northern front should there be war with Iraq.

On Munich's snowy streets, as many as 20,000 people staged protests against U.S. policy on Iraq. "Today Munich says yes to peace and no to war," said Roman Catholic Bishop Engelbert Siebler.

Rumsfeld said Saddam has time to avert war but should not be given another U.N. reprieve.

"We all hope for a peaceful resolution," Rumsfeld said at the 39th Munich Conference on Security, which attracted lawmakers, policy officials, military leaders and private analysts from the United States, Europe and Asia.

"But the one chance for a peaceful resolution is to make clear that free nations are prepared to use force if necessary — that the world is united and, while reluctant, is willing to act."

In response to Rumsfeld's remarks, German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer made an impassioned plea for patience with Iraq and said the German public sees no justification for going to war.

"We must not accept the logic of a military campaign," Fischer said. "We must give the inspectors more time."

In Berlin, a German government official said his country is working with France on "specific peaceful alternatives to a military solution." The German magazine Der Spiegel reported that the French-German plan includes placing U.N. troops across Iraq, conducting reconnaissance flights over the country and tripling the number of U.N. weapons inspectors.

Rumsfeld told reporters he had heard of the proposal through media reports, but suggested inspections only work if a country cooperates. A senior U.S. official said Rumsfeld, in a meeting with German Defense Minister Peter Struck, mentioned the report, but Struck said he could not discuss it because it was not finalized.

Bush said in his broadcast that Saddam "was given a final chance. He is throwing away that chance." Also Saturday, the president spoke with Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, who endorses the U.S. hard line on Iraq.

Sergei Ivanov, the Russian defense minister whose government opposes early military action against Iraq, told the Munich conference the main focus should be on fighting international terrorism of all kinds.

Ivanov did not mention Iraq. He and Rumsfeld met later for a one-on-one session that included a discussion of the way ahead in Afghanistan (news - web sites), including the training of a national army.

The split over Iraq among the United States, Britain and numerous other European countries on the one hand and Germany, France and Russia on the other has caused severe strains in diplomatic relations.

Latest news:

•	Bush, Rumsfeld Press for Action on Iraq AP - 1 hour, 3 minutes ago

•	U.N. Arms Chief Opens Talks With Baghdad AP - 1 hour, 6 minutes ago

•	France, Russia, China Lobby Against War AP - Sat Feb 8, 6:11 AM ET

Special Coverage

Some of the harshest words came from Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who, with Sen. Joe Lieberman (news - web sites), D-Conn., led a U.S. congressional delegation to the conference.

McCain hammered France and Germany for blocking a NATO (news - web sites) effort to plan for ways of defending alliance member Turkey from potential attacks by Iraq in the event of war. Turkey has requested such assistance, and the United States is strongly in favor of it. The Turks want Patriot anti-missile batteries, surveillance planes and other defensive help.

McCain accused the Germans and French of "calculated self-interest." He said their actions had caused a "terrible injury" to NATO and exposed their "vacuous posturing."

NATO officials are to meet Monday in an attempt to resolve the conflict over defensive aid for Turkey.

"Turkey needs to be looked after," Rumsfeld said before returning to Washington. He noted that Turkey shares a border with Iraq, and "the idea that NATO would deny them NATO support in that circumstance, in my view, is inexcusable.'

In his speech, Rumsfeld left no doubt that Bush is prepared to act soon on Iraq. The Pentagon (news - web sites) chief referred to Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites)'s presentation to the Security Council last week and said it provided "not conjecture but facts" on the Iraqi threat.

"It is difficult to believe there still could be any question in the minds of reasonable people open to the facts before them," Rumsfeld said. "The threat is there to see. ... Really the only question remaining is: what will we do about it?"

He concluded his speech by saying, "The coming days and weeks will tell."

Rumsfeld also criticized the United Nations (news - web sites) for making Iraq the head of the U.N. Commission on Disarmament and Libya the head of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights (news - web sites).

"An institution that, with the support or acquiescence of many of the nations represented in this room, would permit" this to happen "seems not to be even struggling to regain credibility," he said with a tone of incredulity.

"That these acts of irresponsibility could happen now, at this moment in history, is breathtaking."

In another development signaling the Bush administration's move toward war, the U.S. government has started granting permission for American humanitarian organizations to work in Iran and Iraq.

For now, groups that received U.S. funds will begin surveying the potential needs and getting supplies in position to prepare for the fallout of war, said Sid Balmer, spokesman for InterAction, an alliance of 160 private U.S. organizations doing overseas humanitarian work.

The above at post #58 from:

Bush, Rumsfeld Press for Action on Iraq - Yahoo News

In a very interesting development tonight, Germany has agreed to send Patriot missile batteries to Turkey on its own, and has recommended that NATO take over peacekeeping duties in Kabul.

I think this is an indication that Germany realizes that NATO is seriously threatened by its own actions, led by the French, of course, and is now scrambling to minimize the damage.

The French aren't cooperating, which is to be expected, and either nation can shatter the alliances that have stood the test of time for 60 years.