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Population implosion: Many nations aborting future generations, creating underpopulation crisis
WORLD ^ | 2/15/02 | Gene Edward Veith

Posted on 02/07/2003 1:37:10 PM PST by Caleb1411

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To: aruanan
I with you, I personally would like to see 10 or 20 million more illegal aliens immigrate into America. I could only help our economy !
41 posted on 02/08/2003 6:23:11 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Thorondir
Without the stable life provided by agriculture, you would never have the technology to sit there and type on your computer.

You think this is a good thing? LOL.

Needing a computer is, like agriculture, another insult to human happiness forced upon us by overpopulation.

42 posted on 02/08/2003 6:24:38 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: aruanan
more than two families deciding to increase food production beyond what simply happens to wash up on the beach so that they'll have more than they at present need is overpopulation.

If not for overpopulation, why should anyone bother about increasing food production beyond what is needed?

You make the same mistake European explorers did when they judged certain peoples as imprudent for not stowing food for a rainy day.

Those Europeans had no understanding that before overpopulation, there was no need to store for a rainy day, because those people they encounterd had never known a time when nature failed to provide them.

All of their surrounding world was their natural larder.

Why bother about storing stuff which can spoil and sicken you--or which you must worry over to prevent raiding by animals and insects?

So long have you worn the albatross of civilization and overpopulation around your neck, that you make the unconcious assumption that things made a necessity by overpoplation, were things that always were.

43 posted on 02/08/2003 6:39:39 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: FITZ
well, It doesn't change from one day to the next.If you look at Europe where in the 70's they started paying families a monthly income to produce offspring (currently in Germany $300 per child), the birthrate is still declining. The phenomenon is that all that happened during the best economic period ever. That in itself was the death knell of their ever expanding social system. They were not able to manage prosperity. People became lazy, living on a generous subsistance which is now higher than having to go to work. "La Dolce vita" caught up to them. Now they are too lazy to breed. The population is aging and not enough workers to pay taxes into the system to pay for the promises of life long pensions. They have to import workers from the only race that is still procreating, the Muslims. They will lose their identity in the next generation. We are fortunate in the U.S.. While other countries experience a decline in population, we are projected to increase ours through various means. The European situation is causing Political and economic unrest. It is getting worse by the day. The Government is trying to change things on a short term basis. Trying to find long range solutions are forgotten. It is almost like sitting in a leaky boat with a spoon to bail out the water. The future is grim.
44 posted on 02/08/2003 6:49:43 PM PST by americanbychoice
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To: Age of Reason
No, the overpopulation "crisis"has been exposed as a fallacy. Much has been written about the overpopulation myth and here is just one source:
http://www.rense.com/politics6/overpop.htm
45 posted on 02/08/2003 7:03:25 PM PST by eleni121
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To: Caleb1411
The problem is this: western nations, which are secular and materialistic, view childrearing as an expensive hobby. The only reason that folks throughout the west have any children at all is to satisfy the nuturing, maternal instinct that exists in most women. Problem is, this instinct can be satiated by one child, or two at most.

But in order to have a healthy, growing population, the average woman must have 2-3 kids...not 1-2. The individualistic view of childbearing just doesn't cut it...it doesn't give any motivation to women to have enough kids.

Only religious conviction, compounded by a cultural expectation of having large families to continue the existence of a cultural/tribal group, can provide adequate incentive to women to have more babies.

To the extent that govt policy can influence this (which is debatable), I would suggest that we pass a law that any married couple who has more than 4 biological children is permanently exempted from paying income tax. This would provide an incentive to those who have significant incomes to have kids, without also stimulating increased fertility amongst those who can't afford to raise kids to begin with.

46 posted on 02/08/2003 7:21:11 PM PST by quebecois
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To: aruanan
The US has the most generous immigration policy in the world, as we ought. However, floods of illegals will destabilize, stress and overwhelm. Illegals are also a reproach to the legal immigrants who came here the hard way.
47 posted on 02/08/2003 7:28:24 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: eleni121
Read my other posts on this thread.

Overpopulation is not about how much you have.

Overpopulation is about what you must do to obtain what you will have.
48 posted on 02/08/2003 9:26:06 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: Mamzelle
The US has the most generous immigration policy in the world, as we ought.

As we ought? Why is that?

49 posted on 02/08/2003 9:26:50 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: eleni121
Why, fitting the world's population in Texas is a waste of space.

If you pack them like Alctraz and Sing Sing did, you could fit the world's population in Rhode Island with room to spare.

How silly that prisons equate crowding with punishment and loss of freedom.
50 posted on 02/08/2003 9:39:39 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
Your other posts resemble the musings of a luddite. I guess I was on the right track for criticizing you.

albatross of civilization?

Needing a computer is, like agriculture, another insult to human happiness forced upon us by overpopulation

51 posted on 02/08/2003 9:53:14 PM PST by eleni121
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To: aruanan; Caleb1411; expatpat; toenail; Dialup Llama; Loyalist; RightWhale
by your definition, anything that one does or any manner in which one must behave to obtain what he wants is "overpopulation"

No. Not anything.

Look around: All life seems designed to pursue its means of sustenance. No animals are too lazy to feed themselves.

Neither is man lazy to provide for himself; man only seeks to avoid behavior that is contrary to his nature.

When people are accused of being lazy for evading work or school--is it becaues they are lying down sleeping, or are they found expending great amounts of energy doing things they enjoy?

People are by nature designed to love living a certain kind of life--a kind of life which we can no longer live because of overpopulation.

Now many sit at desks all day doing drudgery, only to be told that after work they must jog in circles (to simulate a days work hunting and gathering) lest they die of heart disease.

We now must do the work of civilized man to earn food and still do the work of hunter-gatherers to earn our health.

Modern man must work two shifts, and in ways most uncomfortable--jogging in circles is not the same as the endorphin eased exhilaration of real hunting.

52 posted on 02/08/2003 9:59:41 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: eleni121
musings of a luddite.

You still don't get it.

I am not for dispensing with technology--I am against encouraging population growth, which increases the need for more technology.

Perhaps after another twenty or thirty-thousand years, our natures (and bodies) will--through generations lived in pain and struggle--finally adapt to the current level of civilization.

Or perhaps technology will speed up evolution, by first drugging us (already happening) and by later changing our genes (the first steps are being taken), to better suit us to living with technology.

53 posted on 02/08/2003 10:13:50 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: Caleb1411
abortion ends between one-third and one-fifth of all pregnancies

So?

After a while, people inclined to abort their children will have selected their genes out in the course of evolution--such people, by aborting their pregnancies, will make their kind extinct.

Left alone to run its course, and your problem will solve itself.

54 posted on 02/08/2003 10:19:08 PM PST by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
Then why are you there typing? This isn't forced upon you. Free yourself of mankind and civilization. Give up those tools, medicines and clothes made by other men. Be free! Run wild and naked into the wilderness.

Then let's see how long you last. You wouldn't make a single week.
55 posted on 02/08/2003 11:47:34 PM PST by Thorondir
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To: Age of Reason
Please cite the civilization that never knew famine or natural disaster.

People have practiced agriculture in virtually every society since history has been recorded. That agriculture is the exact reason that some had the luxury to trade, study, invent, make art and artifacts and record history.
56 posted on 02/09/2003 12:03:25 AM PST by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US.)
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To: Age of Reason
Where do you live: city, suburb, country, boondocks?
57 posted on 02/09/2003 8:15:51 AM PST by expatpat
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To: Age of Reason
Because it has worked to our advantage throughout our history. We settled the country with immigrants, and there's plenty of country left. Our aging population needs support from the younger, and if immigration is controlled we can get productive workers who will support the aged. It has now ceased to work to our advantage because it is now uncontrolled, and we now have in place a system that rewards those very potential immigrants most willing to flout our laws and least likely to be productive.

Generous is not unlimited. The flood we are now experiencing is raising not just resentment in the legal residents and citizens, but alarm. The critical mass was reached and surpassed long ago.

58 posted on 02/09/2003 8:17:12 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Thorondir
Then why are you there typing? This isn't forced upon you.

Why do you type in English? It isn't forced upon you.

59 posted on 02/09/2003 9:09:50 AM PST by Age of Reason
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To: Mamzelle
Because it has worked to our advantage throughout our history. We settled the country with immigrants

In the beginning, America obtained vast territories.

To prevent those territories from being settled, then claimed by foreign powers, America needed to seed those terriories with settlers as quickly as possible--so America imported people, rather than wait generations for our population to increase and migrate.

And somewhere in all this, big landowners profited (as they do today).

After the abolition of slavery (which also drove the price of paid labor down among poor whites), the industrial revolution in America needed cheap paid labor, so they flooded the country with immigrants to increase the supply of paid labor, thereby driving-down wages.

Immigration has always served certain interests, while hurting other interests.

Today, immigration is used to keep the cost of labor down while also dividing and conquering the American population through diversity ("they" don't want one, large, dominant culture with a belief system that gets in "their" way).

All this serves the powerful.

and there's plenty of country left.

Were there plenty of country left, why is the price of real estate rising?

If there is plenty of country left, why do we need pollution conttrol, recycling, and water-saving toilets and showers?

And as the number of voters approaches infinity, the power of your vote approaches zero.

60 posted on 02/09/2003 9:37:10 AM PST by Age of Reason
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