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No rally to Powell's evidence at U.N.
UPI | 2/05/03 | Roland Flamini

Posted on 02/05/2003 1:44:05 PM PST by kattracks

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To: kattracks
French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin called for the inspections to be strengthened, and outlined procedures for making them more effective. "Why go to war if there still exists an unused space in Resolution 1441?" he asked.

The "unused space" to which Minister Villepin referred is in the collective French skulls.

And while we're on the subject of collectives, the UN is a useless antique born of Marxist utopian theory. The national security of the United States of America (and any other nation that values its sovereignty) should never, ever be held hostage to the whims of any other nation or group of nations. The League of Nations was not truly disbanded. It merely morphed into the UN after WWII. I wish it would disband forever.

61 posted on 02/05/2003 3:50:55 PM PST by Wolfstar
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To: blackdog
No other country wants it! First of all, the UN is here so that the diplomats from the worlds hell holes can enjoy food, clothing, shelter, banking, movies, theater, sewage systems, malaria free mosquitoes, drinking water, laws, free travel, wonder bra's, adult book stores, plastic surgery, important surgery, schools, and a relatively healthy outcome each morning when starting the Lexus

Well, if nobody will have the UN, then that's even more reason to throw em out. I wonder, though, if this seeming reemergence of (de) Gaullistic ego might be emough for the French to try for it. Just as de Gaulle stuck his nose in the air in WWII and said "I am France", I could see Chirac sticking something where the sun doesn't shine and declaring "I am the UN." Would it make great theatre?
62 posted on 02/05/2003 4:08:16 PM PST by pt17
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To: kattracks
The American President, George Bush, has within his grasp the power to put and end to the UN and expell the body from US soil.

He can end the US taxpayer financing of worldwide socialism and begin a new era of American independence.

He can stand up against these haters of the free and LIBERATE the American people from the burden of "world government"

The UN is non-existent without OUR money and OUR participation.

The question is........

WILL HE?
63 posted on 02/05/2003 4:09:05 PM PST by WhiteGuy ( - Ron Paul 2004)
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To: Tamsey
"Honey, you are still throwing rocks and now you made him bleed on his head... don't you want a new Playstation game? Please put the rocks down, pumpkin..."

Ha-Ha! Excellent analogy. Reminds me of the time I was a kid sleeping over at a house of friends of my parents. One kid in that family was a spoiled brat, acting up. His mommy went through the same bit, begging him to stop. He got worse, started throwing toys at her. His daddy promised to buy him that big stuffed animal he wanted. Junior ended up spitting in his mother's face. Next day he got the big stuffed animal. 30 years later I ran into his mom, asked "how's junior?". She said "we don't talk about him anymore, he's in prison for assault, robbery, weapons, etc..." (and was in and out of jail since his teen years).

64 posted on 02/05/2003 4:14:40 PM PST by roadcat
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To: WhiteGuy
"Will he"

The answer is no. As much sense as it makes to me, it would be a HUGE tool for the democrats in 2004, portraying Bush as a war monger who doesnt want to be answereable to anyone, etc, and how the democratic party is rational and willing to accept world criticism yaddah yaddah. As much as i would love for it to happen, Bush withdrawing from the UN would cost him the election. Next term, who knows
65 posted on 02/05/2003 4:39:11 PM PST by WashingtonCollegeofLaw (Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals.....except the weasel)
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To: roadcat
yep... it's really sad, you want to both strangle and feel sorry for the child at the same time because they don't stand a chance in H*** of turning into a responsible, caring, balanced adult...

I don't, however, believe that Saddam deserves any such sympathy ;-) Let's just strangle him...

Tammy
66 posted on 02/05/2003 4:40:26 PM PST by Tamzee
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To: kattracks
The French foreign minister...also suggested appointing a permanent U.N. coordinator for disarmament in Iraq...

What more needs to be said?

67 posted on 02/05/2003 4:49:26 PM PST by jiggyboy
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To: j_tull
Actually no, it's a reference to Babylon 5. Do you think I should be banned?
68 posted on 02/05/2003 5:19:45 PM PST by ValenB4
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To: WashingtonCollegeofLaw
Maybe, but...

If the right shows that the left cannot, and will not, "connect the dots", as Clinton did not when he refused to go into Afganastan (because of the UN), after 4 terrorists acts against the US.

Bush can say, the US will from now on, "connect the dots", without UN approval, for protection from terrorism.

It is a good debate.
69 posted on 02/05/2003 5:21:39 PM PST by roses of sharon
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Comment #70 Removed by Moderator

To: ValenB4
He's definately an an idiot. And so is Bush. Reagan, in his current state, is smarter than both of them combined.

Nothing could be more mega-stupid than the juvenile insults we see above.

71 posted on 02/05/2003 5:55:49 PM PST by Jorge
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Comment #72 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks
The Frogs can keep their Mirages the hell out of Iraq. I'm sure they'll be more of a hindrance tban a help.

And as far as moving the UN, I'm all for it. Except not to Paris. Move it to Riyadh, Tehran, the Ivory Coast, Cameroon, Zimbabwe... well, you get the idea.

Heck, during the Cold War I was all for moving it to Moscow. Except the Russians probably would have been to smart to have it.
73 posted on 02/05/2003 6:53:30 PM PST by VeniVidiVici
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To: brewcrew
I'm just trying to come down to the level of most people on FR. In no particular order, here is why I think this war is wrong.

No matter how anyone rationalizes this war through WMD treaty evidence, we are the aggressors. We are the ones who are going to start it. Politicians lie and governments break agreements. That's not enough to justify butchering a population in my book. Fighting Iraq will be as helpful against terrorism as Vietnam was against communism. It won't be helpful at all and will probably make the problem worse. After all, the Twin Tower attacks, the worst terrorist event in history, were not committed with WMD.

This will be an immoral war because we are going to wipe out thousands of people based on the miniscule possibility that Hussein is just going to, on a whim, launch an attack on us or our allies. Unfortunately, no matter what we do, there is no guarantee of a perfectly safe world in all places at all times. We can only deal in probability. Launching a devastating war puts the original sin upon us and makes us the villain. We can't just assume he'll launch an attack. That is reckless and stupid. As long as he knows the consequences, which he has to, everything likely work out. You can't have a foreign policy based on paranoia. Besides, these things have a strange tendency to resolve themselves. Nasser of Egypt just dropped dead of a heart attack one day. Stalin died right before he was going to initiate another bloody purge. It wouldn't be surprising to see somthing like that happen in Iraq.

The US has never started a war in this manner and it will be a sad day when we do. As pointless and immoral as Clinton's war against Serbia was, there was already a war taking place. We just interfered, killed a lot of people, and wrecked a lot of property for an ambiguous result.

Bush said this was going to be a different type of war. But it looks like a very typical old type of war to me. The war on terror is probably really going to be World War III and could last decades because it's the first truly global guerrilla war with no end in sight. We will lose if we keep fighting it in the way we've fought the wars of the past.

There's a greater possibility that North Korea could do something rash - but Bush is too much of a coward to deal with Kim Il Jung because he may have nukes and also has a extremely powerful and large conventional force. On second thought, Bush is wisely going to avoid pressing that situation there. We will likely let the South Koreans deal with it and OK whatever they come up with. However, every country that thinks it's on our hit list is going to desperately try to get nukes because they can see the contradictory policy.

It's stupid for Bush to be fighting Iraq when the ultimate problem is the intolerance and inherently violent nature of Islam. He's too afraid to call it like it is and would rather appease the Gods of Diversity, the altar upon which Blair worships, much to the chagrin of the great people of Britain. I think Islamic liberals can reform the religion if they have time. Whether they can do it before some terrorist cell nukes NYC is the great race of all time. But the liberals need time and a war with Iraq only makes it harder for them, and more dangerous for us. But it's up to them.

With a war more Americans are going to be at risk all over the world and it will somehow eventually come back to haunt us. It may take a year, 5 years, or 20 years. We may go an entire decade without an incident and think the war on terror is won until one of our cities is suddenly hit with a nuke or bio/chem attack.

These countries aren't just going to sit idly by while we knock them off one by one. If our enemies are smart, there is probably in the works an informal alliance between China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, North Korea, and various other thug regimes. They will probably coordinate operations to spread us out so thin that we can't be everywhere at once, ensuring a strategic US setback somewhere.

Finally, there is the issue of fighting and what our guys are going to be exposed to. The evidence is coming in that the 1991 Iraq War, which was also pointless, was not such a clean one as we thought it was. Post-war casualties from Gulf War Illness are quite high - 160,000 (or 28%) to the satisfaction of government doctors - a higher casualty rate than any previous war (I have the article, I'd be happy to forward it to you). The way the government railroaded these guys and tried to deny anything is shameful.

This whole thing stinks. The only thing worse than an idiot like Bush are the people dumb enough to follow him, dumb enough to be swept up by the grand spectacle of the state. I shouldn't say that. You're not stupid. It's just that nobody likes to believe they're being hoodwinked by the government. Bush is basically a decent guy (yet stupid), who I sort of like personally. We all want to believe that we're all in this together and that politicians have our interests at heart. I stopped believing that a long time ago.

74 posted on 02/05/2003 6:57:03 PM PST by ValenB4
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Attack on Iraq Betting Pool
75 posted on 02/05/2003 7:00:20 PM PST by Momaw Nadon
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To: ValenB4
Geez. Don't you know you shouldn't drink and post. You're all over the map with that argument.

I've seen this same argument from some left-wingers. Just what should happen to justify using our armed forces?

What if 'JoMama Been Lying' sends out another tape tomorrow thanking Saddam for his help and saying what good friends they are. Would that make a difference?
76 posted on 02/05/2003 9:07:16 PM PST by VeniVidiVici
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To: Digger
bump
77 posted on 02/05/2003 9:09:53 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
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To: ValenB4
lemme get this straight. You are concerned for the lives of thousands of innocent Islamists in Iraq but at the same time threatened by the inherently violent nature of Islam. So I guess your solution is to say "Islam is not a religion of peace but we'll leave the murdering bastards alone"
78 posted on 02/05/2003 9:43:35 PM PST by arielb
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To: ValenB4
oh and btw can you name 10 of these so-called Islamic liberals?
79 posted on 02/05/2003 9:45:39 PM PST by arielb
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To: arielb
I'm not concerned about the Islamists in the least. We may end up having to wipe out Mecca and Medina. But I'd sooner avoid that if possible. If you want to meet Islamic liberals, try reading Ibn Warraq's book or go to Ali Sina's site at www.faithfreedom.org.
80 posted on 02/05/2003 10:09:41 PM PST by ValenB4
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